I want to state up first I get it, I’m on the right side, most of these men are awful, and every man-o-sphere influence is awful. Andrew Tate belongs in a 6 foot deep hole, or a hole in the back of his head. Joe Rogan should be sent to the Hague.
But when dudes complain, even about genuine issues, we have a tendency to just attack them for it. If a guy complains that being short can kinda suck (and it can. More so than just getting girls, it can hurt your career and everything.) People, even leftists, tend to just call them a sad manlet or something. Same thing with dudes complaining they can’t get a girlfriend, are they not alienated under capitalism? I’m not saying we have to coddle the incels, but we could do better at presenting a future, a better one, maybe?
The discourse about height, and dick size, are both stupid but here (in this safe space) can I admit that there’s a point to both? They affect people, it’s a real thing.
And back to the Joe Rogan’s, I feel bad that men and boys get sucked into that. I have some pity for them, these desperate losers.
Anyways, Im sure I’m going to think this is dumb, but I just can’t help but feel like there’s a gigantic community of extremely disaffected people that while I mostly loathe, I also really feel bad for. I don’t think it would’ve taken much to push me there, I grew up in a good environment with some good role models, but without that, left to the wolves, I’m as susceptible to the grifters as everyone is.
anti incel action
aw man, you dug this up from a year ago. What a terrible thread? Im not sure how you found this, whats up?
The comm is revived, made a comment because I volunteered to help keep it clean due to the subject matter
I feel like this thread got a weird amount of heat, I sort of accidentally sounded like I was sticking up for Andrew Tate, bad vibes.
This isn’t like my issue or anything, but from afar it does seem frustrating that there are legitimate grievances in the men’s rights community that are interesting and very compatible with feminism, but because the community has so many toxic dildos in it discussing any of those grievances serves as a red flag for being an MRA psycho.
I imagine it is like being a serious academic who happens to have good historical evidence that there was actually only 9 million people who died in the Holocaust, not 12 but you could never actually share your research with anyone because they would just lump you in as a Holocaust denier.
this is why conceiving of ‘men’s rights’ as dichotomous or separate from feminism (which is not ‘women’s rights’) is so harmful. legitimate complaints about the standards patriarchy imposes on men are folded into reaction against femmes instead of against patriarchy, the actual instigator
I think you really get what I’m saying.
There is a wider discrepancy of power amongst men than there is within any other gender. If you average it out and compare it, it’s almost ubiquitously higher than the others, but the intra-gender spread is incredibly wide and this causes a cascade of problems.
That’s about as far as I’d take my analysis.
100% correct and based. I get annoyed sometimes because I see female presenting(or perhaps just appearing) people say things like “it’s not my job to help emotionally stunted men.” Which yeah, I guess technically it isn’t, it is unfair that a lot of women have been used as crutches for men and that isn’t good, and you don’t always have the energy for it. That’s all fair, but it was someone’s job, and that person failed. This is a hard problem to fix alone, you cannot get better at relating to other people and seeing them as human without other people being present. And are they going to talk to other men about it? The people that in many cases berated and hurt them to instill this belief, this emotional weakness? It’s not any one person’s job to fix a broken man they are around, but it is all of our jobs to help each other. If you saw someone bleeding out in the streets, would your first thought be “it’s not my job to get them to the hospital”? I’m not expecting every woman or female presenting person to out themselves in harms way to help every man they meet that isn’t perfect, I get lack of emotional space, personal trauma or just general distaste for the work, and genuinely valuing their own time, but the smugness some people post about this with is disgusting. You should never be proud you saw someone hurt and didn’t help them.
And the doubling down on sexist language towards men. It’s not okay to make fun of a guy for being short, or not being muscular, or being shy or nervous, or any of the other things which it is just mean to mock people for. It doesn’t break down gender walls, it reinforces them. It also reinforces transphobic rhetoric. If being a short man is bad, or not having facial hair, or not being muscular, and so on, for men but not for women, seems like anyone with those traits who wants to live as a man would feel like garbage all the time. It also breeds the idea men are stronger and more brutish than woman, and deserve more abuse because they can take it. The fact that I, living as a man, have been called sexist because when a woman insulted me I insisted her back is absurd. She is not porcelain and I am not steel. Anyone who disagrees with that is not a feminist.
I’m lucky to have had supportive men and women growing up, and now have people of all genders around me who encourage emotional vulnerability and openness, and don’t expect stock masculinity from me. I wish everyone had this opportunity. Until they do, it’s my job to try and provide it for them, so they don’t fall to the manosphere. Because it is tempting, it’s easy to blame all your problems on others if they seem adversarial to you, and society blame your problems on them, or their problems on you when you’re still growing. The solution is the same as it always is to us as leftists: we reach out, educate, and build solidarity.
I mean yeah it’s completely true that in a perfect world we shouldn’t be attacking people for having small dicks or being short or whatever, but I also do think there can be some contextual usage there too. A person who prides themselves off of being “Grrr I’m rugged traditional conservative white man who rules over women and minorities” is going to be particularly irritated if it’s pointed out that he’s short. Men with ego issues might be better pointed out as “They’re compensating for their self esteem issues” but I also can acknowledge it’s funnier to say that they have a small dick because that makes them very very upset and is likely a part of their self esteem problems to begin with. These hypermasculine conservative assholes and their idealogy is after all, one of the major creators of these self esteem issues around men being “too short” or dicks being “too small” to begin with.
On the other hand there is a very valid point “This hurts the good people with self esteem issues over their body just as much” so I try to refrain from it overall, but I do think that hypocrisy can be pointed out sometimes. Like a Nazi “superior race” dude being traditionally unattractive or disabled or something else the Nazis would hate seems fine to point out.
but I also do think there can be some contextual usage there too.
fuck that, there’s no tactical “x is gay” or calling black conservatives the n-word, or abusing fat comrades to get a shot in at trump that he’ll never see.
Joe Rogan should be sent to the Hague.
Wait what?
I thought he was just some dumbass who takes steroids and has a podcast.
I thought he was just some dumbass who takes steroids and has a podcast.
one of the biggest mistakes people make in assessing the political character of public figures is to imagine that what they do is simply “neutral” by default and that it would require some effort on their part to play a reactionary role. But when American society is fundamentally reactionary, capitalist, imperialist, colonialist, racist, and plagued by all kinds of phobias towards marginalized groups, then someone like Joe Rogan plays a reactionary role simply by sitting around and talking. Whether he realizes it or not, the ruling ideas are the ideas of the ruling class. His audience defends him by saying he lets on “both left wing and right wing people.” But if you notice, the farthest “left” people he lets on are Social Democratic people like Kyle Kulinski and libertarian whistleblowers like Edward Snowden. He lets on far more right wing influencers than left wing influencers by default, but most of who he has on are simply capitalists. Celebrities, athletes, CEOs. These are by default going to be members of the bourgeoisie who have a heavy stake in maintaining the status quo. He also lets on CIA assets like Yeonmi Park. And Joe Rogan himself being a multi billion dollar business owner who advertises products, is himself bourgeoisie. Even if he had never said anything prejudiced (which he did) he is fundamentally just a capitalist.
