GABOR MATE : Zionism will be looked upon as one of the greatest disasters in Jewish history.
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In this conversation, Frank Barat and Gabor Maté delve into the complexities of trauma, guilt, and the ongoing genocide in Gaza and Palestine. They explore the psychological impact of witnessing atrocities, the historical roots of violence and oppression, and the emotional responses that arise in the face of such horror. Mate emphasizes the importance of acknowledging guilt and rage, while also recognizing the helplessness felt by those who wish to help. The discussion also touches on the normalization of violence and the implications for the future of Gaza and global society. Chapters 00:00 The Weight of Trauma and Guilt 07:48 Understanding the Roots of Sadism 14:57 The Impact of Historical Trauma 21:59 Navigating Emotions in the Face of Horror 30:12 The Future of Gaza and Global Implications

And so it’s not that they set out to be cruel, it’s that they had to become cruel in order to achieve their goals, and that’s not retrospective. Some of them saw that right from the beginning. There’s a Jewish leader, Asher Ginsberg (Hebrew name is Ahad Haʻam), he said in 1896, that if we c—eighteen ninety‐six… that if we continue to treat the Arabs like this, all we’re gonna end up is one small Levantine people tormenting another small Levantine people, and he said, if this is the Messiah coming, I don’t want to see him arrive.

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Zionism was never really a hundred percent consensus ideology amongst Jews. People right from the beginning opposed Zionism for all kinds of reasons. Some for religious reasons, some for vocal reasons, some because they saw what it would do to the Palestinians, some because they saw what it would do to the Jewish soul, how it’d corrupt the Jewish soul. How it’d make us into oppressors. Now, the fact that right now Zionism amongst Western Jews is the majority ideology: so what? That’s a temporary phenomenon.