He’d probably throw his own mother under a bus to ‘win’ the midterms.

or any of his wives.

Wow! Nailed it!

I’ve said for years: what Israel is doing to the Palestinians they are doing to themselves.

wow. that is honestly the first original thought I have heard about the ongoing troubles between these 2 groups of people fighting over the same land, both claiming it to be their own, exclusively…

something in the same spirit, but from a different era, different war…

Ditto

Seems like many prominent politicians are aging, nearing the end of their lives and just want to go out with a bang.

C) both A and B

Interesting variation on history repeating itself. Who is Bibi in all of this? Herod Antipas?

Definite popcorn time watching those two groups respond…

Yes, very forward looking and specualtive…

Like assassinating Castro with exploding cigars. .

Yeah if you think Lebanon’s political breakup was messy…

This would make that look like child’s play.

The Palestinians however have deep ties to the region going back thousands of years sharing DNA with bronze and iron age Canaanites from the region.

Same is true of the Jews. That argument really doesn’t move the legitimacy of Palestinian claims forward one iota.

The Jewish claims to the land are absolutely specious when you look at the available data.

Concepts of land ownership under the Ottomans (and before that) do not conform to modern legal ideas of land ownership. For 1200 years under the Ottomans, the Ottomans owned everything, and the local inhabitants were simply allowed to reside on the land, (unless you were Armenian). It is better to look at the issue of land ownership from the Mandate era forward, where laws of land ownership and most other things were in the process of being modernized and harmonized with more recognizable and standardized western norms & (soon to be the common global understanding!) concepts of land ownership.

Even without opening a bible or koran, there is historical evidence of a very long-lived Jewish state in the region. There is no evidence of a Palestinian state- ever. Palestinians were only ever residents on the land, pawns of larger empires for 2000+ years- Ottomans, Mameluks, Crusader States, Jews, Assyrians, Babylonians, Egyptians, Mongols.

If you wish to argue the “Palestinians were here first” angle, you’re not going to win that debate. History and archaeology are not on your side.

The current Jewish population of the country are not of the land, they are all colonial settlers who came from Europe

That is your opinion.

Jewish exiles returning to their ancestral homelands… Sounds a lot like the Palestinian narrative about themselves. Odd, that. It took 2000 years, since the Roman era, but again, do you say that anyone who is forcibly removed from the land of their fathers somehow loses any claim to that land? What then, of the Palestinians who have relocated to Iraq, Jordan, Syria, Tureky, Europe & Egypt in the last 80 years? Have they also lost their claim to the land? When does one’s claim expire? after decades? centuries? millenia?

Be careful how you answer that, because Truth is a double edged sword that cuts both ways.

They got over 55% of Palestine despite being colonial settlers fresh off the boat, free land for nothing.

Jews purchased the land they owned in the Mandate era, when laws were in such a state that land could be legally purchased and passed on or sold under modernized reformed laws. It was not legal nor permitted by the British to simply take someone’s land. Palestinian landowners got rich selling their lands to Jews, and at the same time, sold out their own people for the sake of money.

Land stealing came later, and didn’t last long. I exclude land that the state of Israel won in wars against the Arabs. Israel simply did to Arabs what the Arabs would have done to them had the circumstances been reversed in the Arab’s favor.

Jews surrounded by 100s of millions of Arabs and other Muslim states.

Arab politics in the 20th century, post 1948 has been highly fractious itself… It’s almost as if they dislike eachother as much as they dislike the idea of Israel existing. Yes there are more Arabs surrounding Israel than there are Jews inside Israel, but absent any real consensus among the various Arab states, their hatred for Israel has not amounted to much in 80 years. Impotent terrorism that has made Palestinians pariahs globally. Several lost wars, which only served to strengthen Israel in the end. Dallying with Baathism, attempting to play the Western Bloc off against the Eastern Bloc during the cold war, cults of personality with Nasser, all of which only brought further internal and regional discord among states that claim to have a common agenda. Their own internal discord among Arabs ensures Israel’s security.

The only thing holding back the tide is Israel’s relationship with the USA but this relationship is not set in stone.

I wouldn’t be so sure of that and I certainly wouldn’t bet money on that in the next 25 years. Remember that as the current generation of Israeli and Americans age and die away to be replaced by newer generations with new thinking, the same is occuring in the Arab world. Nasser didn’t outlive Lyndon Johnson… not by much… Saddam didn’t outlive Bush. Assad didn’t outlast Bibi. The end of the cold war left the entire Arab world flat. The next generation of Palestinians may have a different perspective than the current generation, especially if they are allowed to taste some prosperity for a time and are liberated from propaganda pushing 80 year old narratives written by their grandfathers and great grandfathers.

.

Not interested in conspiracy theories or conspiracy thinking.

I said Gaza is doomed. There will always be plenty of Palestinians just over the border in Jordan. Jewish claims to the land are no more specious than Palestinian claims. They too lived on the land for centuries, even in Ottoman times and before that. The Brits absolutely doubled crossed the whole Arab world during the mandatory period, aided by the French. In the climate of political indertiminacy and vagueness, the Jews saw their opportunity and declared independence before any agreement could be imposed on them. The 1947 UN partition agreement was not such a bad one, when you consider how unrpoductive and violent the past 80 years have been. But the matter has been settled by war (and Israeli military victory) repeatedly since then. If the current situation is based on ideals and beliefs of another era, well that is just what it is. Jews saw their very brief window of opportuninty in 1948 and they took it. They will not give the land back, just as the USA will not be giving all of its land back to the native Indians. Never happen. That fact has been settled for over a century now. Arabs and Israelis will need to learn to live together in peace. You cannot correct the wrongs of history. Those belong to the past and cannot be changed. It may take several more generations coming and going before both sides begin to realize this.

but let your card expire and look how they hound you to update your CC info with them…

Sadly that’s a little overoptimistic.

Yeah it’s hard to predict the direction of things in that part of the world with certainty. For the last 150 years it’s been a lot of 2 steps forward and one step back… But stability + growing economic prosperity slowly over many decades has seemed to change attitudes in the region and shift them away from religious and political radicalism.

Iran’s current form, and Syria’s before it, was the result of Western versus Easter Bloc proxy war.

• British/American/French bungling from 1914-1950’s…

Nice to have intelligent comments in here and a non-hostile tone. The Israel/Palestine types in here these days are just insufferable. I refuse to delete or whine to the admins about any individual post, but GAWD some of them…

And the USA and EU are no saints in this, either, I admit we’ve been far too tolerant of pieces of shit like Netanyahu, Erdogan, etc.

Well, when their time is over, or conversely when a day of political judgement comes for them in this world, then their time will end. Until then, it seems they have free reign. We’re living in historic times. I wasn’t a fan of Bush II’s GWOT until ISIL started. Before that it seemed like just another neocon “forever war” and it was, but at the same time, it did have its moments where a little good was done in this world. At astronomical cost.

In a different region/conflict, I think those Merkel years are due for a huge re-think in central Europe, in light of what’s going on in Ukraine right now. Putin played her like a fiddle, and played her for a fool at the same time. .

Saudi’s did an okay job against ISIS so while I don’t endorse their system of government I certainly don’t oppose this operation.

Couldn’t agree more. Surprised it took them this long to get things organized. SA has it’s problems but those can be fixed gradually over time. At least they are not exporting jihad or other violence like some other countries and societies in the region. Saudis have actually got something of value to lose if they don’t play their cards right. Houthis and Palestinians, less so. No golden thrones to lose or fall from in those places among those people.

As for Egypt… my guess is nothing at all. They are 20 years behind the Saudis as far as getting on the train of modern politics. Arguably as troubled internally and politically as Yemen. The current government of Egypt keeps a lid on Islamic radicalism, sort of… but I think they are still years behind the Saudis. Lots more internal repression lies ahead for them before they attain the political stability the Saudis have currently attained. Give Egypt another 20 years or so and maybe they can get off the bench and play in the real game for a few plays.