This post is going to be a bit personal (and maybe a little bit out of context, it’s not just Google software I want to remove) but I’m tired of not knowing what to do about it. I want and have wanted to get rid of a bunch of proprietary software in my life, including but not limited to Google’s software, for quite a while now, and I even got a Pixel 7A with hopes of installing GrapheneOS. But there are a few problems. First, my parents are understandably concerned and need me to use Google Maps’ location sharing whenever I go to school. All my classmates use Instagram and we have that as our only messaging platform. I currently use DFInstagram, but I feel that it is not free from spyware. Finally, I also own a DJI Mini 3 Pro, and the associated DJI Fly app just refuses to work under GrapheneOS (I tested). Is there anything I can do to replace or limit the access of these aforementioned proprietary apps?
If your using GrapheneOS you don’t need 2 devices, you can setup diferent profiles/users in the settings that are containerized and don’t interact with each other. Your main profile will be completely foss and degoogled and in the second one you can install the play services from the GrapheneOS app updater (if you already have them in main i recommended you to backup and factory reset to make a clean install). There you can have Google Maps and all the spyware you need, you can even set it up so you recive notification from the second profile in the main one.
that’s what I was planning to do with graphene.
One idea is perhaps to have more than one device? A tablet at home could be used in some scenarios, the rooted phone for some others. Maybe you have an old device laying around?
You can offer your friends the option to use Signal for messaging. It’s not a big deal to use several apps for messaging different people.
I don’t know how old you are or were you live, but it just sounds crazy to me your parents want to know your location at all time, it seems paranoid. Maybe there are other “location sharing” apps out there, but they are by definition not very privacy oriented, not sure if I would trust another app more than Google-Maps…
OwnTracks is good for location sharing/logging and is open source. Ideally requires you to run your own MQTT server though.
If not using your own server, you can use payload encryption to protect your location data from being snooped by other users. (But ideally you should just run your own server, it’s pretty easy.)
Agreed. Actually some people are crazy about Signal for the Stickers https://signalstickers.org and I’ll admit that I find the Signal Stickers fun as well. Stickers could be the decisive argument to have them use Signal :)
Hmmmm. I actually disagree with this comment.
I think that signal is a useful alternative for people that are privacy oriented or that do not have an existing chat, but to make the transition from Instagram to signal is going to feel like a step back for the vast majority of normal users especially teenagers/preteens.
On a related note, because we do not know the age of the original poster, it is a non-starter to say that his parents should not be tracking his whereabouts until we have more information. For all we know, this could be a 13 year old. I’m more useful alternative would be to suggest privacy-friendly location apps
I’m relatively young, but my parents weren’t always aware of my whereabouts when I was thirteen. Heck as young as 8 years old they let me bike the 5km to school. I think that trust and autonomy was good for me, especially as a preteen/teen.
Contrast with my younger brother, who our father still tracks via Snapchat in his early twenties. I can say the constant feeling of surveillance has definitely had an impact on his mental health.
Parents tracking a 13 year old is still a bit messed up, but yeah, nothing they can do about it.
Yeah, no, it’s a group chat of my entire class. Making all of them switch is not an option, it’s too many people who don’t care so much about digital privacy and aren’t interested in tech
Feels crazy no one has mentioned it yet, but Beeper finally got released a couple days ago. Check it up, I’d recommend you to use the “OLD” client tho, new one feels like a beta version.
It’s just a preconfigured matrix server with (proprietary) clients and easy to use bridges, it allows you to use multiple messaging networks in one app, so you could use signal or matrix chats with most people and keep only essential exceptios like the instagram class group.
Really stupid easy to set up, and if you feel more concerned about privacy you can always search for a matrix homeserver with bridges or self-host your own (pretty complicated, wouldn’t recommend too much).
Isn’t the point of deGoogling removing the majority of the proprietary apps on an Android Phone, though?
Oh i agree on that, but matrix itself is open source, that’s why i listed it too. The 3 options are good, but the more secure the more complicated.
Beeper is the easiest, with the con of closed-source client (the server is open source and they contribute a lot to the matrix ecosystem, thus my trust in them). This is what I’m currently recommening to most people as a lesser bad just because how easy it is to use.
Public matrix instances are good too, i personally use frei.chat, but most of them use unmodified matrix servers and there’s a bunch of open source clients available. Bridges with other networks are configures through bots.
Then you can self-host your own server, but it can get messy and expensive. I usually prefer to self-host everything, but decided to pass on matrix for now.
Have you looked at these threads for the DJI app issue?
https://discuss.grapheneos.org/d/904-grapheneos-pixel-6-dji-fly-app-compatibility
https://github.com/GrapheneOS/os-issue-tracker/issues/2527
As for Instagram…ugh. Absolutely insane to use Instagram for private communications, but I get it, you can’t change your whole social circle. What you can do is isolate Instagram and similarly untrustworthy apps into a second user profile in Android, so at least it won’t have access to your real photos, contacts, etc. I use Shelter for this purpose, but there are other options as well.
+1 for Shelter
The DJI Fly app is probably considerably worse for security/privacy than most Google apps. DJI has a storied history of sketchy practices in their apps: see here.
Google also won’t allow DJI to distribute their apps through the Play Store, because of DJI’s weird insistence on being able to push arbitrary binaries to customers’ phones entirely free of any third party vetting.
GrapheneOS’ sandbox hardening might help somewhat, but I’d recommend avoiding DJI products if you can. If you must use DJI Fly, prefer to use it in a different profile where it can’t touch any of your personal apps. Tough when they are singularly the best drone manufacturer for videography though.
Could be a good argument for a second phone (maybe OP’s old phone), with no Google account or any other info, lock it down (disable wifi, etc, use something like Rethink DNS or No Root Firewall, or AF Wall if it can be rooted), etc.
yeah, that’s what im planning on doing.
Looking at this from my own personal perspective. I like to DeGoogle as much as possible because I strongly dislike the idea of others tracking me and creating profiles and making money from that, but at the same time many years ago people already could be tracked when carrying “dumb phones” on you so I figure some compromises will likely have to be made (Some people I know got rid of using phones altogether but not everyone is able to do so).At least at home for your desktop computer or laptop you can look into https://pi-hole.net and VPN and Tor. Use LibreWolf instead of Firefox (Firefox is quite full of Google by default).
I agree with this general sentiment. I think the important thing to remember is that there are very few of us that are completely off the grid and with good reason. You have to pick and choose the battles in this frontier. There are people that have completely removed Google from their life, but still message relatives on Facebook or people that are running graphene OS but still talk to chatGPT on a daily basis.
What’s important is to find the balance that works for you and accept the trade-offs while still living a fruitful life
But LibreWolf is not as restrictive as GNU IceCat. The latter blocks most of the website aggressively.
Location tracking: there are other options that you could use, though they generally requires you to set up your own server in addition to installing the app.
- OwnTracks
- Hauk
- https://github.com/azomDev/PrivacyPin
- NextCloud + PhoneTrack
You could also use an OsmAnd integration to avoid the need for a server, e.g., using their Telegram location tracker or regularly sending lat/long via SMS (though I couldn’t find an existing solution for this).
setting up my own server isnt an issue, I already have a makeshift server with a laptop.
Learn to use this, disable all the apps you don’t want but cannot uninstall, download apps from Aurora and Droid.
This allows you to return to the stock OS (too much stuff is missing on Graphene), and still maintain some level of control of your privacy and the security of your device
I like Graphene, I use Graphene, but it does strip too much of the cool stuff you get on stock android for pixels
The trick is to find what you need, what you want and what you’re ok without, then decide how to proceed.
If you have more questions along the way, feel free to ask.
Now, let’s see how many people blast me for suggesting this 🤣🤣
Good luck.
Instagram - I don’t know of any FOSS instagram clients that are actively maintained. Can you use it on the web with uBlock Origin enabled to minimize trackers, and try to get the contacts you care most about onto a less invasive platform?
At least as of October the DJI Fly app was reported working under GrapheneOS, see https://github.com/GrapheneOS/os-issue-tracker/issues/2527
My understanding from https://discuss.grapheneos.org/d/904-grapheneos-pixel-6-dji-fly-app-compatibility was that it requires broad storage access to work. Did you try adjusting the Storage Scopes configuration to get it to run?
thanks! dji fly was my primary concern with grapheneos so that’s out of the way now
What do I do?
Suffer
this comment is real
This is gonna sound stupid but hear me out:
Switch to ios.
You can’t degoogle. Your post says as much. But you want to not be negatively impacted by googles software. The best option in this case is to get on a platform that allows you to limit that negative impact.
When people say degoogle, most of the times what they mean is they want to use software (preferably free and opensource) that respects their privacy. How does switching to ios help with that? You are jumping from Google’s ship to Apple’s and your hardware is going to be even more restrictive. And all the proprietary services OP has to use now (like Instagram) will remain the same in ios. So I don’t see how switching to ios solves OP’s problems.
i’m not trying to argue with you or refute points you made, but instead to respond them in the context of the OPs question:
I want and have wanted to get rid of a bunch of proprietary software in my life, including but not limited to Google’s software, for quite a while now, and I even got a Pixel 7A with hopes of installing GrapheneOS.
my parents are understandably concerned and need me to use Google Maps’ location sharing whenever I go to school. All my classmates use Instagram and we have that as our only messaging platform. I currently use DFInstagram, but I feel that it is not free from spyware. Finally, I also own a DJI Mini 3 Pro, and the associated DJI Fly app just refuses to work under GrapheneOS (I tested). Is there anything I can do to replace or limit the access of these aforementioned proprietary apps?
so graphene isn’t an option and the OP wants to get some control over google maps location sharing, instagram and be able to use their drone app.
ios has straightforward privacy controls that accommodate family sharing with a decent degree of granularity, can limit what applications like instagram can do in a very clear and easy to understand way and as far as i know the DJIFly app works on ios (its in the app store and has 4 stars. i don’t use it so i can’t speak to it).
“graphene isn’t an option” is just not true, there are ways around all the mentioned issues if you just read the rest of the thread/crossposts. And android also has a robust permissions system for apps. Going to iOS buys OP very little except a loss of control over their device to software even more proprietary than Android. And I say that as someone who doesn’t use android because I don’t trust google.
One thing is being aware of bad actors on the internet, in that case IOS could be an option, other thing is being aware of the mass surveillance and manipulation across the digital space, and that’s the thing we’re more worried about in communities like this, in such case, IOS is no better than shooting yourself.
You can’t become privacy conscious without sacrificing something, some friend will go away calling you a paranoid, somo products you own will become garbage, that’s just normal here.
okay i reread your comment like five times. how, in the context of mass surveillance and manipulation, is ios no better than shooting yourself?
Do you actually trust Apple? Do you really not see it as a honeypot? Are you sure Apple don’t track you and respect your privacy as a human being insted of seeing you as a profitable product? Are you out of your mind?
i asked how you could say that in the context of mass surveillance and manipulation ios is no better than shooting yourself.
I get hyperbole, but i don’t understand that one.
in answer to all your questions: no, no*, no, no.
- i don’t know what you specifically mean by a honeypot, but i don’t see how apple is one.
Apple tracks you every bit as much as Google, with even fewer options to mitigate it.
The bottom line is, with Apple you can’t control anything, and they mask the process for limiting data collection using dark patterns.
Also, you can’t turn off Siri data collection. What you can turn off with Siri is it responding to voice commands - with the control panel being another dark pattern.
On my Pixel running Graphene, Lineage, or DivestOS, there’s no assistant to collect such data.
On my Samsung, the assistant has been disabled using ADB (since the phone can’t be rooted or flashed).
Apple is arguably worse, because you have no way to mitigate these issues.
that aalto paper is about how users are unable to correctly disable data collection, not how it’s not possible.
I agree with you and those researchers that it’s a huge problem. in a lot of ways we use the internet really abstractly now and there’s no clear process for seeing whats going on behind the scenes and plenty of software manufacturers make it harder on purpose.
but as a person who uses ios and android daily, the privacy settings on ios are lightyears ahead of android.
it’s still not as straightforward as it should be, and apple could be clearer about why some settings are important (advanced data protection in icloud protects you from having your cloud data subpoenaed but god luck knowing this!).
OP clearly state in the post “it’s not just Google I want to remove, but proprietary Software”. Going from GrapheneOS to iOS would be a giant leap backwards in that regard.
Of course you can DeGoogle, but that depends on your situation, the people you need to communicate with. As far as I am concerned Apple is not as innocent as they pretend to be.
iOS is worse than Android in terms of privacy in most ways. Android is open-source, which means we know there is no tracking, at least in custom ROMs like LineageOS. However, iOS is closed-source so there is no possible way of knowing what Apple tracks, because it is fully possible that their marketing material (“whatever happens on iPhone stays on iPhone”) is disinformation. Closed-source software cannot be trusted for privacy, see the Anom Phone, this “closed source can not be trusted to be private” statement is also 99% of the reason deGoogling is a thing. GApps themselves are proprietary and are given near-root access to the system.
Ah, I didn’t see that you were looking for open source!
As a longtime Linux and open source software user, don’t rely on its open nature to belie privacy or security.
Good luck!
