Please understand that this is not me bashing Sweden at all, I am just a bit surprised that compensation packages aren’t that great in Sweden and I would like to understand how compensation packages in other countries are seen at. I worked in the Netherlands, Belgium and Germany and due to my work I know what the packages look like in France, Ireland, Spain and Italy (our headquarters is located in Belgium).
I am from the Netherlands and companies offer additional benefits such as:
- Company cars (very cheap, you pay 100-500 euro per month and it includes private gas/electricity, private parking and all other costs associated with owning cars as well). I know this is limited by Swedish law (you even have to pay for switching the tyres even though this is mandatory…) For example, I drove a Tesla Model S for 180 euro per month and had 0 private costs for this, even when driving the car through Europe.
- By law it is possible to work part-time. A lot of people work 32-36 hours per week. Several governmental organisations even have 36 hours as the maximum hours per week. In Sweden just 40 hours seems the norm.
- 4-12 vacation weeks. Let’s say you have 24 days off per year and you start working in August, you can already take 2 days off in September without any debt as supposed to how it’s working in Sweden (what is up with the strange vacation days thing where you earn them between April and March???).
- Good budgets for education purposes, especialy people with a ‘higher education job’ have between 2500 and 5000 euro per year. I know multiple people who did a masters while working, getting paid time off to study
- Much more team building activities, ski trips and free food (again, this is limited by the Swedish government). When I was living in the Netherlands, I was invited to company and supplier/customer dinners almost every month, and I didn’t have to pay tax for it as it is in Sweden (my former colleagues are laughing when I tell them I need to pay tax on food when I am working late…)
- A 13th or even 14th month of salary
- Getting 100% of your salary when you are sick for a few days. If you are sick for a longer period (for instance a burnout), you get 70-80% but in most cases you get 100% of your salary, meaning there is not obstacle to calling sick
How is this seen in Sweden? I know a lot of people really like unions, but they want to achieve what already is the standard in some other countries in Europe. Is this one of the reasons why it is hard to find higher educated staff (something a lot of entrepeneurs within my network have issues with)? They just get much more salary in other countries and simply move over there.
I really like the working atmosphere here in Sweden, but when it comes to total compensation packages, it is very, very low, especially compared with the costs of living in Sweden. I have a good base salary, but without the additional benefits, at the end of the year I have less more to spend and save, even though my salary is 25% higher than when I moved here from the Netherlands.
Again, I don’t want to insult anything or anybody and I understand there are big differences, but when comparing the average salaries and compensations in Sweden to aruond 7 other European countries, it feels like Sweden stayed in the 90’s and all other countries innovated.
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The original was posted on /r/sweden by /u/ObservationalWizard at 2023-08-07 10:29:13+00:00.
Intelligent_Cover_34 at 2023-08-07 13:42:40+00:00 ID:
jv5ry9u
I rather take karensdag then have to go to the doctors office any day in the week
f12016 at 2023-08-07 11:40:39+00:00 ID:
jv59z2l
Yes you are right. And yes it’s sucks. Would love to find a job in Germany or the Nederland for a higher salary. Hell I would even consider Denmark!
Neltadouble at 2023-08-07 11:21:46+00:00 ID:
jv5e6kb
To all the Swedes who seem to have low opinions of working conditions in Sweden:
Can you point to a country that you think is doing it better? Just curious.
Dramatic_Judge_9760 at 2023-08-07 11:09:11+00:00 ID:
jv5b5li
Yes, very limited. I had a few good benefits working for the Tax Agency actually. 😅 A couple of friends get nice bonuses working for private companies. My husband had really good benefits when working for a kindof-startup but tax laws caught up with them.
I guess tax laws are the main culprit but also since good benefits are rare it also isn’t something an employer needs to use when competing for employees.
I would appriciate more vacation days (40 days minimum), sick days (paid karensavdrag), set fulltime at 32h, higher amount for friskvårdsbidrag.
scifi887 at 2023-08-07 12:08:31+00:00 ID:
jv5g9g1
I get all of those things already in Sweden except for the second bullet point and the last one, I guess it depends on where you work?
mightymagnus at 2023-08-07 11:28:46+00:00 ID:
jv5an1l
Some answers from someone that have worked in Sweden, Norway, UK, Germany and Singapore:
- Car used to be a good benefit but got taxed because of it being beneficial (same with private health insurance). However it is still popular and can be similar.
- In Sweden it is officially 40 hours but usually it is 39 or 38, sometimes you get it as extra holiday week or summertime work (e.g. I have 6 weeks and work to four May-Sep). My impression in rest of Europe (excluding Norway) is that you would be expected to work a lot more hours as free overtime (e.g. UK) or that every hour needs to be logged (Germany). I have also heard about 42,5 hours in Switzerland (which of course have high salaries instead).
- I think this is bad and should be changed so that if you work two months, you get 5 days (if you have 6 weeks holiday). However, I usually hear people having less than 6 weeks outside Sweden (e.g. 2 weeks in US).
- Paid studies exist in Sweden too, maybe mostly PHD rather than Master but that does exists (even bachelor). It might be more an option for people that does not have a degree in first place (e.g. not for another master, except for MBA).
- My impression is that team building is much less in UK and Germany, especially conferences, than Sweden. Although not sure how it is in Netherlands. I don’t think you pay tax on free food, just if you pay it with untaxed money, which I think is what you describe?
- Bonuses seems a bit less common in Sweden, I would say that Swedes (in general) want to stimulate team work and then don’t want to have bonuses (with that said my colleagues have bonuses while my department does not which actually is a bit weird). I also guess that 13 & 14 months salary seems a bit dishonest, why not just include that in your monthly? In Sweden the salary is often written monthly and not yearly which I usually see in rest of Europe (and the yearly does include extra month salary).
- So I don’t call in sick in Sweden, I say to my boss and colleagues that I’m sick, and I will be working (reduced) from home. I do get 100% while I also am not 100% away. I think this is fair for everyone.
Now to a question for you: How does parental (especially paternity) leave work in Netherlands?
SolarPoweredKeyboard at 2023-08-07 12:07:48+00:00 ID:
jv5emif
I feel like parental leave is the only edge Sweden has. Everything else is pretty standard or subpar.
Alepale at 2023-08-07 12:30:54+00:00 ID:
jv5h5id
Family life in general is far superior there than many other countries. Which is good because that’s the only way to sustain and increase population.
For example, daycare in the UK is insanely costly, to the point where it’s common to have one parent stop working and stay at home with the child, because their entire salary (or more) would’ve gone to paying the daycare.
Free school lunches, a big help for many families. Free education, including going abroad to study for free (my friend spent one semester in Canada, studied a course that should’vd cost 10k per semester for free).
Sweden has flaws, but raising a child in Sweden is one of the best experiences in the world. That comes at the cost of not providing people with free Teslas “for work” and other luxuries that only the top end companies get to enjoy anyways.
Other-Ad-1851 at 2023-08-07 13:02:44+00:00 ID:
jv5kvlk
Please dont call it free when its not free. Nothing is. Half my sallary goes to tax.
Alepale at 2023-08-07 13:07:06+00:00 ID:
jv5lf3m
Sure, twist the words however you want. For a family that struggles with making ends meet, that lunch is free for them. For the student that goes abroad to study for a semester, that is free for them.
Glad to hear you’re paying half of your salary in taxes, you’re helping others, and if you’re making so much that you’re paying half of your salary in taxes, money isn’t an issue.
Other-Ad-1851 at 2023-08-07 13:14:20+00:00 ID:
jv5mbm6
Its not a twist of words. And the “free” lunch the student gets is something that person is suppose to pay back later in life. Thats how the system works.
To see it in any other way is only to lie. Why would you call something that people pays for free? Thats not how it works.
Lloldrin at 2023-08-07 13:29:28+00:00 ID:
jv5o8ui
Most people when they say free mean “Free at the point of use”, not that it’s magically created out of nothing.
retrocorner85 at 2023-08-07 18:22:11+00:00 ID:
jv6x5y0
Family life in general is far superior there than many other countries. Which is good because that’s the only way to sustain and increase population.
I don’t know about family life, after living 6 years abroad I have to say that families in many other countries seem to stay together and have a much better bond with each other than in Sweden. They meet up more often, grandparents spend A LOT of time with the kids etc. Might just be my family and the ones of my social circle, but the amount of time we see our parents in a month is very limited. I think that is one reason why we also need a much longer parental leave than other countries, we simply can’t make it on our own otherwise.
Sea_Ask6095 at 2023-08-07 12:42:10+00:00 ID:
jv5ifsh
It isn’t and Sweden’s birth rate is falling. We have a system that forces both parents to work a total of 80 hours a week. This combined with an absolutely broken housing market is bringing the birth rate down.
Being able to prioritize the family instead of being stuck in an office is beneficial for the children, the parents and fertility.
FooLittleBar at 2023-08-07 13:52:29+00:00 ID:
jv5raje
The average cost of childcare in the UK for children under two years old is £138 per week (part-time) or £263 per week (full-time) according to the National Childbirth Trust (NCT).
That is very expensive compared to Sweden.
Also both me and my wife work 80%. So no, there is no system that forces both parents to work 100%.
needyspace at 2023-08-07 13:13:31+00:00 ID:
jv5m7wj
All of these things are way worse in the Netherlands. fyi. I live there
Alepale at 2023-08-07 12:47:41+00:00 ID:
jv5j2xm
It isn’t
Yes it is
We have a system that forces both parents to work a total of 80 hours a week. This combined with an absolutely broken housing market is bringing the birth rate down.
No shit. We live in a world of war, economic crisis and the world is going to shit due us screwing over the entire planet and ruining the climate. But yeah, the 80 hour work weeks are definitely the issue here. Yup. It’s not like Sweden has some of the best paternal leave time in the world, nope. Not at all. Much better in the US, UK and whatnot where you can be asked to come back after 2 weeks.
The housing market I agree with you on, trust me. My old interest rate just ran out and I got slapped with a new one, more than double of what I had before. But let’s not pretend Sweden is the only country with these issues. Go back 50 years in most countries, a working man, regardless of job (more or less) could afford a house by himself, big enough for a family. That doesn’t apply anymore, anywhere.
I will happily pick Sweden as the country to raise my child in, no doubts.
Sea_Ask6095 at 2023-08-07 12:53:00+00:00 ID:
jv5jpqe
Much better in the US, UK and whatnot where you can be asked to come back after 2 weeks.
Letting your 1.5 year old spend most of their waking hour in daycare run by people who often speak poor swedish with 15 sick kids feeding them food from sodexo is horrible for children. Swedish women have record high levels of stress, sleep less than they ever have before and have mental health issues like never before.
Go back 50 years in most countries, a working man, regardless of job (more or less) could afford a house by himself, big enough for a family
Without an extreme tax system most men could.
needyspace at 2023-08-07 13:36:11+00:00 ID:
jv5p44m
Daycare in the Netherlands per kid is something like 2500 EUR per month, per kid. that’s 29000 SEK. There is income based discount, but don’t expect to pay less than 50% of that.
15000 kr per month PER KID! Guess how many people can afford that. You can play around with this tool, but there’s no translation and every daycare is different.
Alepale at 2023-08-07 12:56:22+00:00 ID:
jv5k45o
Letting your 1.5 year old spend most of their waking hour in daycare run by people who often speak poor swedish with 15 sick kids feeding them food from sodexo is horrible for children.
Hmm, yeah. Daycares are know for being notoriously bad for children. That’s why every single country in the world has them, with millions of children attending them daily. Because they are dangerous for children. Flawless logic my friend. You clearly know what you are talking about.
Swedish women have record high levels of stress, sleep less than they ever have before and have mental health issues like never before.
How about we get some statistics before you spew out stuff like this? Hardly believe that to be the case.
Without an extreme tax system most men could.
Oh really? So all these countries where tax is a lot lower, this is the norm then? Please, provide me with some statistics on that, I’d love to see the country where the average salary of one person can buy a house big enough for an entire family. I’m clearly blind as that’s happening everywhere where you aren’t being taxed 30% or so of your income.
Sea_Ask6095 at 2023-08-07 13:42:31+00:00 ID:
jv5py22
Hmm, yeah. Daycares are know for being notoriously bad for children.
Yes
People only use daycares if they are forced to. The Swedish people forces them to.
Ripping kids from their parents, raising them in institutions with weak bonds to their care givers and on food from sodexo is hardly beneficial for the children. It was economic policy good for major corporations. Millions of people smoke and have obese children. Lots of people do it isn’t an argument.
I assume you aren’t going to post any sources of your own. You have no actual stats.
Candid-Meet at 2023-08-07 12:29:40+00:00 ID:
jv5h0hl
Work flexibility and office culture (no competition to see who works the most hours etc, “flat” hierarchy) are also really good in Sweden compared to many other countries in Western Europe
Rbm455 at 2023-08-07 13:39:41+00:00 ID:
jv5pkir
compared to which countries? Germany, Netherlands, and Sweden where I have worked were very similar but as OP described way better pay in DE and NE
mightymagnus at 2023-08-07 14:19:37+00:00 ID:
jv5v4ez
I think the office culture is way better in Sweden than Germany (for Swedish companies, not international ones), but yes on working hours, it varies a bit in Germany but in general respect for “feier abend” and not sitting late.
Rbm455 at 2023-08-07 14:45:12+00:00 ID:
jv5yusw
What do you mean exactly there? I think it’s very common and it’s very chill and easy going
mightymagnus at 2023-08-07 14:51:37+00:00 ID:
jv5ztjh
My impression is that in Germany you get well paid to do your job and that is the mentality.
In Sweden I really appreciate encouragement from my manager and colleagues, I know it does not (at least short term) give me more in the wallet but I really like it. I have had less on that in US companies I have worked in though.
I never had fika coffee breaks, ping pong with colleagues etc. in Germany. And I actually never went on conferences either, both times here in Sweden it have been to spa hotels which I think are great for conferences.
I have way more after work with colleagues as well. I felt that everyone in Germany wanted to leave quick home/gym etc. after the day ended.
Did not had coffee or fruits either but that was maybe cheap, I know Germany companies that have that, but in Sweden it is almost unheard of to not have that.
toooft at 2023-08-07 12:40:54+00:00 ID:
jv5iaj7
Work/life balance is amazing in Sweden.
zxcv27 at 2023-08-07 15:14:31+00:00 ID:
jv63a17
The 40h work week is definitely not amazing.
toooft at 2023-08-07 17:35:33+00:00 ID:
jv6pnvw
If you think a “40 hour work week” is the same in Sweden as in other countries, you’re mistaken. In many countries, like the US, they can fire you on the spot if they want to; you have no job security.
In reality, that means that they can demand that you work overtime - and fire you if you don’t - or let you go because you’re sick or want to stay at home with your kids.
Sweden has such beautiful safety nets for workers that many other countries will never have, thanks to a strong union history. Swedes take them for granted and just compare salaries and work hours. It’s not the same.
valik99 at 2023-08-07 19:31:16+00:00 ID:
jv788t8
My experience in a company with flextid was that those 40h were just written on paper. I’m referring to people coming/leaving the office whenever, especially Friday afternoons!
daswings at 2023-08-07 15:13:47+00:00 ID:
jv635zf
It sounds better than it is. It’s capped at a rather low level but the volume of days is nice. Many employers do compensate extra for the salary capping.
Yeah we don’t really have an edge. High tax plus arbetsgivaravgift… If you have a well compensated job in Sweden you would certainly do better elsewhere.
Swedish companies are usually a bit more relaxed and flat so even if it’s 40hours most work less and you don’t need to deal with bureaucracy and more hierachical company life’s (can only compare with Germany, UK, Ireland etc). So it can be nice…
Working for international companies in Sweden can be good for the salary compared to Swedish companies
xyzi at 2023-08-07 12:37:57+00:00 ID:
jv5hyax
Not calling in sick when you are sick, and instead saying you’ll work from home sounds exactly like what many Americans are doing, since they have a limited amount of “sick days”.
Doesn’t sound fair at all or healthy. And if you are too sick to work at all, it just sounds like you are cheating the system. I agree that the system is bad. Just saying it’s an odd defense.
mightymagnus at 2023-08-07 14:28:31+00:00 ID:
jv5wepo
I know it is not correct but I would rather have something like that, usually I’m not 0% functioning but maybe 60% and work according to that. I also feel manger and colleagues have an understanding of that too and don’t push you 100% when you are sick.
If I would be so sick I can’t work I would take that as sick leave too, but that is very rare for me, would rather be an accident or similar.
Recol at 2023-08-07 13:43:38+00:00 ID:
jv5q3c5
You might have minor symptoms, but don’t want to infect others. But obviously a lot of cheating going on with this.
shitsu13master at 2023-08-07 14:15:32+00:00 ID:
jv5uj9m
It’s not always that clear cut though, is it? If I can sit up in my bed I might as well write some emails. There’s no difference between that and hanging out on Reddit while sick. But I am still too sick to travel 90 mins to work and spread my germs to everyone else who’s also there.
If you’re so sick you can’t do anything but sleep, ok, call in sick. I had to do that when I came down with the flu and legit could barely make it out to the loo.
medicinexmed at 2023-08-07 12:07:48+00:00 ID:
jv6g3h2
Since your question about parental/paternity leave hadn’t been answered I’d like to pop in with an answer:
In 2019 fathers in the Netherlands were entitled to 1 week payed paternity leave. In 2020 this was increased to 5 weeks. Now it’s 3 1/2 months.
The mother gets 6 months.
This is from an article in Svenska Dagbladet from yesterday 6 august. It is about a Swedish woman living in the Netherlands with her dutch partner and two children. They pay 7 500 kronor for their two kids to be able to be in kindergarten 2 days/week.
By the way, it also discussed how parental leave laws in Sweden came about, which was around 1930. And it wasn’t about equality of the genders. Sweden, back then, was sparsely populated and suffering from a housing crises, at the same time they needed more workers to create a stable economy. Due to the housing crises Sweden couldn’t just “import guest workers” like many other countries did. They instead wanted to make Swedish women work more, as they were already living in the country, and therefore made sure that there is a system that would allow them to work even if they had children.
CryoQuee at 2023-08-07 11:04:54+00:00 ID:
jv59h1b
Our currency is super low right now, and food prices are a nightmare
Lasrod at 2023-08-07 11:34:05+00:00 ID:
jv5d7nb
Average salary for IT jobs is 70k SEK I’ve heard
mrbigbucksandmuscles at 2023-08-07 16:19:58+00:00 ID:
jv6k4bb
The thing that always bothered me about Swedish work culture is that most people on a team tend to get similar raises. The difference in a high performer and someone who would have been fired in any other country is often only 2%. Kind of a motivation killer
Bastuhingst at 2023-08-07 12:26:24+00:00 ID:
jv5ts2u
You keep mentioning higher education and high skill labour, what about the people that don’t fit that criteria?
CrazyRah at 2023-08-07 17:24:58+00:00 ID:
jv74bci
Will be looking forward to OP responding to some of the people in here. A lot of good answers to questions and some misconceptions OP seems to have
Rnd0112358 at 2023-08-07 16:19:58+00:00 ID:
jv6m7su
For skilled jobs you are completely right. Swedish compensation is not good.
For unskilled labor, I’d say the compensation is good.
”How is this seen in Sweden? I know a lot of people really like unions, but they want to achieve what already is the standard in some other countries in Europe.”
Many unions are fighting to increase the salaries for their worst paid employees, that’s part pf the explanation as to why skilled labor is so cheap in Sweden.
E.g. I’ve been a member of Finansförbundet, a union where members tend to earn between 25k sek/month to maybe 120k. A lot of what they fight for is mostly relevant for the lower salary bracket.
However, I personally like the Swedish way, where focus isn’t on those who earn the most but those who earn the least.
iBreakDown at 2023-08-07 11:16:27+00:00 ID:
jv5e68r
I’m not sure where you get the idea that Swedish salaries aren’t high on a European standard.
I work in finance and have worked full time in Luxembourg, Amsterdam, Stockholm and now Zurich.
I would say the salaries in Sweden are most likely only trumped by places such as Copenhagen, Zurich and London. In every place I’ve worked so far, the salaries have been below the ones I’ve seen my friends and myself being offered based in Stockholm, except for Zurich.
The perks you mentioned I have seen being offered in Luxembourg and Amsterdam and are very nice, which I agree with. But there were multiple ancillary costs that NL and Lux had that Sweden covers. But I would also expect to be offered better benefits to accept the lower salaries offered abroad.
If you look at GDP numbers I also fail to see how Sweden would offer lower wages, and curious what industry you work in.
NoMoneyNoSucky at 2023-08-07 11:57:02+00:00 ID:
jv5expm
Honestly, salaries are double compared to Italy and work is much more flexible, and relaxed. Or maybe I was lucky with my workplace.
Separate_Debt at 2023-08-07 12:04:58+00:00 ID:
jv5d356
Get a kid, that’s how you get the real benefits. Family > Material benefits, for Swedish workers.
But you might prefer a beer or a ski-trip over spending quality time with your family? You seem to be at that stage in life 💁🏼♂️