• UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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    2 months ago

    Ah, you’re talking about colonialism. You’re going to have a hard time finding anti-colonialists on Lemmy, unfortunately.

    • cygnus@lemmy.ca
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      2 months ago

      Nah, it was just a throwaway joke, the west obviously doesn’t intend to colonize China this time. What they did in the 19th century was egregious, though, and should be much more common knowledge than it is.

      • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        the west obviously doesn’t intend to colonize China this time

        The Chinese state is a much harder nut to crack under the CCP than it was a century and a half ago under the Qing Dynasty. But there are plenty of John Bolton-esque figures in the American government who seem willing to give it the old college try.

        What they did in the 19th century was egregious, though, and should be much more common knowledge than it is.

        It’s very difficult to talk about the English Empire as the world’s premier opium cartel without taking a bit of the blush off the rose of liberal democracy and free market capitalism. These historical blemishes get dusted over for a reason.

        • cygnus@lemmy.ca
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          2 months ago

          It’s very difficult to talk about the English Empire as the world’s premier opium cartel without taking a bit of the blush off the rose of liberal democracy and free market capitalism. These historical blemishes get dusted over for a reason.

          I agree, but that reflex is unfortunate because the ability to openly discuss and confront those things is what sets democracies apart from totalitarian states. You could never see that kind of frank introspection in China regarding June 4th '89, for example.

          • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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            2 months ago

            You could never see that kind of frank introspection in China regarding June 4th '89, for example.

            You could and did. That moment radically transformed how the Deng Administration treated independent political movements, college student activism, and old guard Maoist organizations.

            The argument that Chinese politicians and scholars simply don’t acknowledge the events as happening is Western propaganda.

            • cygnus@lemmy.ca
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              2 months ago

              Cool, how long did you live there? Do you still have contacts on the mainland?

              • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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                2 months ago

                Two years, working abroad. And plenty of friends and relatives both on the mainland and in Hong Kong and Taiwan.

                • cygnus@lemmy.ca
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                  2 months ago

                  I must say I’m very surprised that your HK and TW people share your views. I don’t know any Hong Kongers or Taiwanese but most people I know (generally northerners, which is ironic) have more, shall we say, nuanced opinions.

                  • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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                    2 months ago

                    I must say I’m very surprised that your HK and TW people share your views.

                    I didn’t say they share my views. I’ve seen every angle of the argument and quite a few of them have different opinions.

                    But they argue over a shared history. Mainlanders don’t get confused when someone from Taiwan talks about Tienamen. Taiwanese people don’t stare blankly at the name Chiang Kai-Shek. Folks from Hong Kong aren’t unfamiliar with the British Occupation.

                    People aren’t simply ignorant of the facts. They tend to be biased due to their material conditions. If you’re a mid manager at the Houston branch of Sinopec, you didn’t get there because you were a John Bircher. Meanwhile if you’re on the payroll of the Foremost Group, you’ve got a very real financial incentive to oppose Chinese unification (but also a real incentive to oppose US tariffs on China).

                    Work as a contractor long enough and you’ll get all different kinds of viewpoints. They’ll be adversarial, not simply ignorant.