Why make an allowance for property managers? Seems like they see a group of people being exploited, and want to find a way to take a cut of that exploitation.
I work in tech, I can choose to work in tech all day because I am the most productive in it.
Then I can hire a chef that cooks for me, a maid to clean, a gardener to garden, etc and a manager that manages the home.
Each cook, maid, gardener, and manager can in turn have multiple clients.
And if they work all day in the thing they are most proficient at, they can in turn hire other people to do the stuff they do not do.
This style of living is usual in India, Singapore and outside “The West” more generally.
You can see here that the property manager is a part of the division of labour and so “competes in the marketplace” with other property managers for that position, the same with me and all the other workers do for our respective roles in the example.
This is peak liberalism/free market dynamics.
I don’t think this is sustainable without coersion.
But this is what is meant by “social production” by both Smith and Marx.
Furthermore, you can choose not to hire anybody and be your own property manager which is, in my opinion, more sustainable and totally allowed.
The problem with landlords is that if all the land is owned by someone else, you do not have an option of managing your own land without “hiring” anybody else to do it so you are trapped.
This also allows landlords to squeeze money out of people.
And the biggest issue it allows other people to rule out your own existance.
This sentiment is perfectly encapsulated by the following quote:
Land, n. A part of the earth’s surface, considered as property. The theory that land is property subject to private ownership and control is the foundation of modern society, and is eminently worthy of the superstructure. Carried to its logical conclusion, it means that some have the right to prevent others from living; for the right to own implies the right exclusively to occupy; and in fact laws of trespass are enacted wherever property in land is recognized. It follows that if the whole area of terra firma is owned by A, B and C, there will be no place for D, E, F and G to be born, or, born as trespassers, to exist.
I hope that shows my position on the matter. I would like your take on it. As can be seen in this thread, there are those who do understand the position and instead of engaging with it, just deride it.
Thanks for the discussion. My understanding of the quote that you’ve included is that it is an argument against private ownership of land in general. I think that this notion, also carried to its logical conclusion, can only be sustained with an absolute degree of central planning. That is to say that a central organizing force would be needed to ensure that some percent of land is set aside for growing food for A through G and beyond, as well as land set aside for any other services that used by all parties (hospitals, schools, etc.)
I’m not necessarily trying to argue against this, and think that there may be a need to address scenarios like this relatively soon. Blue Origin has a vision statement that says something like, “hundreds of people living and working in space”. I’ve wondered what property ownership might look like for people living and working in space where “property” is a significantly more constrained resource.
Sorry that I’ve kind of glossed over the role of the property manager a bit to address the latter part of your post. I can understand the difference to an extent, though my experience with property managers is that their objectives are to extract the highest possible amount from the renter (since their income is a percentage of the rent paid), which I see as a little different from a cook, maid, or gardener. Competition in the market place for a property manager also seems that it may favor the property manager that can maximize the income to the landlord.
Why make an allowance for property managers? Seems like they see a group of people being exploited, and want to find a way to take a cut of that exploitation.
Good question. I understand where you’re coming from with that statement. I have seen ads such as: (https://bsky.app/profile/derek.bike/post/3kkwecolbwk23) and very much share your sentiment.
Short answer: The Division of Labour
Long answer (sorry in advance):
I work in tech, I can choose to work in tech all day because I am the most productive in it. Then I can hire a chef that cooks for me, a maid to clean, a gardener to garden, etc and a manager that manages the home. Each cook, maid, gardener, and manager can in turn have multiple clients. And if they work all day in the thing they are most proficient at, they can in turn hire other people to do the stuff they do not do. This style of living is usual in India, Singapore and outside “The West” more generally. You can see here that the property manager is a part of the division of labour and so “competes in the marketplace” with other property managers for that position, the same with me and all the other workers do for our respective roles in the example.
This is peak liberalism/free market dynamics. I don’t think this is sustainable without coersion. But this is what is meant by “social production” by both Smith and Marx.
Furthermore, you can choose not to hire anybody and be your own property manager which is, in my opinion, more sustainable and totally allowed.
The problem with landlords is that if all the land is owned by someone else, you do not have an option of managing your own land without “hiring” anybody else to do it so you are trapped. This also allows landlords to squeeze money out of people. And the biggest issue it allows other people to rule out your own existance. This sentiment is perfectly encapsulated by the following quote:
I hope that shows my position on the matter. I would like your take on it. As can be seen in this thread, there are those who do understand the position and instead of engaging with it, just deride it.
Thanks for the discussion. My understanding of the quote that you’ve included is that it is an argument against private ownership of land in general. I think that this notion, also carried to its logical conclusion, can only be sustained with an absolute degree of central planning. That is to say that a central organizing force would be needed to ensure that some percent of land is set aside for growing food for A through G and beyond, as well as land set aside for any other services that used by all parties (hospitals, schools, etc.)
I’m not necessarily trying to argue against this, and think that there may be a need to address scenarios like this relatively soon. Blue Origin has a vision statement that says something like, “hundreds of people living and working in space”. I’ve wondered what property ownership might look like for people living and working in space where “property” is a significantly more constrained resource.
Sorry that I’ve kind of glossed over the role of the property manager a bit to address the latter part of your post. I can understand the difference to an extent, though my experience with property managers is that their objectives are to extract the highest possible amount from the renter (since their income is a percentage of the rent paid), which I see as a little different from a cook, maid, or gardener. Competition in the market place for a property manager also seems that it may favor the property manager that can maximize the income to the landlord.