That’s just an accidental admission that you supported the Democrats because of what you had to lose. You didn’t notice the one who had already lost everything.
Electoral politics sucks that way. If all you care about is a single issue, there might be no good option.
I don’t think the applies to Gaza and Palestinians but plenty of people do.
But presidential elections are not about a single issue, unless you are short sighted or it’s your life on the line. The rest of us have to make a judgement about a whole lot of lives and some of us are too self rightious to think clearly.
Honestly, I think the same of you. If you are American, You can’t see the forest for the trees and you voted or allowed the election of someone that was even worse for the palestinians, Americans, and the world.
I’m sure the people being tortured in Cecot in Elsalvador take comfort that at least the Democrats got punished at the polls for their support of Israel.
The Ukrainian families that lost their loved ones when the US cut off intelligence sharing for 48 hours and let the Russians get the jump on exposed troops.
The thousands of US government workers that lost their jobs to DOGE can rest easy knowing that at least Harris didn’t get elected after supporting genocide.
Nobodies life was saved, the isrealies continue their ethnic cleansing, with the full throated support of the US president, but you get to sleep soundly knowing All the death, torture, and suffering is worth it.
Nope, you were just pretending it wasn’t happening when your team did it. In that sense, I’m glad that the president is being open about it, it means you libs can’t deny it as easily
My team? I am not even American. I am just saying that while Democrats werent doing much to prevent the war crimes in Gaza they at least did a little bit. Meanwhile, the Republicans are actively cheering Israel on and deporting protesters.
hey they made an aid pier that got used to distribute a tiny amount of supplies before it got used to launch an Israeli massacre and then broke apart under its own weight
while Democrats werent doing much to prevent the war crimes in Gaza they at least did a little bit.
Nope. The democrats weren’t just not doing anything to stop the genocide (which you’re trying to downplay as just “war crimes”), they were actively helping commit the genocide.
You’re lying to protect people committing genocide. You are a genocide denier
Meanwhile, the Republicans are actively cheering Israel on and deporting protesters.
At least they’re fucking honest! That’s less loathsome than you dishonest fuckers, who are just as genocidal but are also liers. You are more evil than them
Where is it that you fascist fuckers picked up the idea that any disagreement with you is inherently “bad faith”, because you all employ the exact same rote talking point when ever someone points out your genocide denial.
Biden pressured Israel to stop under threat of withholding weapons and funds. And Israel ignored him, then Trump was elected and even encouraged Israel to press further.
Most sources I find says the opposite of what you claim. And of course you don’t provide sources, argue in bad faith and resort to insults after running out of arguments.
So the solution in this case, would be to not vote? Think about this, if both sides have the same views on a topic, but they aren’t totally the same on every topic, then voters should pick them based on stuff they disagree on. This is actually entirely obvious
Voters should vote for those who represent their interests. If any candidate is endorsing (let alone committing) genocide, and that is a violation of a given voter’s interests (and it damn well better be), then that voter should not vote for that candidate, period. If there are only 2 options and both are genocidal, then neither should be rewarded with a vote. You want “harm reduction”? Then vote for PSL - if your liberal obsession with voting has convinced you that voting has any power whatsoever, then don’t use it to reward genocide, use that power to say no to it entirely. If your position is that “we live under a system where we are getting genocide no matter what” then rather than going “well, there’s a chance this one might be one iota less genocide” maybe start coming to the correct conclusion that the system is indeed irredeemably rotten and rigged FOR genocide, that it is designed to be this way which makes all of that system your enemy, not just the orange team that says the quiet part out loud too much, but also the one that smiles politely and gives the right lip service while literally, not figuratively, but very much actually mass murdering children. Yep, that blue team is your enemy too. So now it’s time to get down to the hard work of building alternative power structures through organization in direct defiance of the genocidal machine, having done away with your petty red(orange)/blue team false dichotomy. Join us in actually working for a better world rather than tossing up your hands and voting for the genocidaires that cry crocodile tears and pretend it’s such a sad state of affairs as they massacre little kids for power and profit. You aren’t actually beholden to support them. They aren’t the “lesser” evil, they’re just another piece of the entire evil machine!
If you boil the entirety political action one can take to a binary choice between 2 Imperialist parties, then you’d have a point. To get to that point, though, you have had to fundamentally ignore the entire argument about voting being perhaps the weakest form of expressing political power one can do.
While voting, the only votes that matter are for the 2 leading parties. A third party vote is equivalent to not voting. Outside of the voting booth, there’s more you can do to push what you actually want. Doing stuff other than voting doesn’t mean you have to completely waste your vote too.
Third party votes do a number of things, from signaling disapproval for the electoral system in general, to supporting parties that one of the lead parties will need to bend towards to capture votes.
Also, only a handful of states even matter, most states aren’t swing states. In these non-swing states, no vote matters. This is part of why voter apathy is so high.
If they aren’t trying to get my vote, why would I vote for them? They’re telling me to fuck off!
A party that’s moderately responsive to its constituents would see their usual voters defecting and try to do something to bring them back. Democrats don’t even clear that low bar.
I had planned to vote for Claudia De La Cruz, but the Democrats sued her off of the ballot in my state.
But they won’t let us take control at the ballot box. The capitalists will turn the guns on us before they hand over their power, even if we followed their rules.
Also, the Dems are working with the GOP to ban ranked choice voting nation wide.
The thing to fight for is ranked choice voting, or some other method without a spoiler effect. Until you have that, the only thing that matters in the ballot box is the top two candidates. Anything else is equivalent to not voting. I’m saying you should make the choices that have the best actual effect, not make a worthless protest vote to make yourself feel good.
The thing to fight for is ranked choice voting, or some other method without a spoiler effect. Until you have that
No. The thing is for candidates to endorse ranked choice voting and implement it, and until they do that, they are going to have to deal with the spoiler effect.
This shit is so stupid. “You have to fall in line unconditionally forever, until, out of the kindness of their hearts and against their own interests, the party decides to let you out of that situation.” That’s just saying we have to fall in line unconditionally forever. They’re never going to just give us systemic change, it’s designed this way on purpose and is working exactly the way they want it to.
The only way to actually apply pressure towards getting necessary policies is through setting conditions on your vote based on those policies. This ideology of “lesser-evilism” is completely illogical and incoherent, and the whole reason we’re here is because it’s such an egregious failure. There is no incentive for politicians to implement RCV if they know they’ll have your vote either way. It’s the squeaky wheel that gets the grease.
There’s so much Democrat bootlicking in here, the comment section smells of wet leather and shoe polish.
If you can’t draw the line at genocide, you’re trash. No exceptions.
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LoL. Sure bud.
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People are perfectly capable of opposing Democrats and Trump.
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So now opposing both parties is supporting genocide? This is one of the laziest astroturf/hasbara bots I’ve seen on here yet.
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If you can’t vote against fascism you will get genocide every time.
That’s the point. Both the Dem and GOP candidate were full blown, genocidal fascists.
Yep, no difference whatsoever. /S
If you really believe that then I guess you think nothing was lost.
That’s just an accidental admission that you supported the Democrats because of what you had to lose. You didn’t notice the one who had already lost everything.
Electoral politics sucks that way. If all you care about is a single issue, there might be no good option.
I don’t think the applies to Gaza and Palestinians but plenty of people do.
But presidential elections are not about a single issue, unless you are short sighted or it’s your life on the line. The rest of us have to make a judgement about a whole lot of lives and some of us are too self rightious to think clearly.
Genocide is not a “single issue.” For genocide to be allowed to happen, there has to be a mountain of other issues.
You are a disgusting person for hand waving genocide like this. You should be ashamed of yourself.
Honestly, I think the same of you. If you are American, You can’t see the forest for the trees and you voted or allowed the election of someone that was even worse for the palestinians, Americans, and the world.
I’m sure the people being tortured in Cecot in Elsalvador take comfort that at least the Democrats got punished at the polls for their support of Israel.
The Ukrainian families that lost their loved ones when the US cut off intelligence sharing for 48 hours and let the Russians get the jump on exposed troops.
The thousands of US government workers that lost their jobs to DOGE can rest easy knowing that at least Harris didn’t get elected after supporting genocide.
Nobodies life was saved, the isrealies continue their ethnic cleansing, with the full throated support of the US president, but you get to sleep soundly knowing All the death, torture, and suffering is worth it.
Shame.
Just a bunch pro-fascist NATO talking points. That lines up. You don’t oppose fascism. You just have a preferred flavor of it.
And if you vote for genocide, you are voting for fascism.
If you can’t see the difference then I guess all flags are swastikas to you.
It’s a shame you’re unable to see which flags are swastikas while you go on supporting them.
Well looks like not voting Democrat got you even more genocide and a president openly advocating it.
Seems like the same amount as a year ago
Nope, you were just pretending it wasn’t happening when your team did it. In that sense, I’m glad that the president is being open about it, it means you libs can’t deny it as easily
My team? I am not even American. I am just saying that while Democrats werent doing much to prevent the war crimes in Gaza they at least did a little bit. Meanwhile, the Republicans are actively cheering Israel on and deporting protesters.
hey they made an aid pier that got used to distribute a tiny amount of supplies before it got used to launch an Israeli massacre and then broke apart under its own weight
Nope. The democrats weren’t just not doing anything to stop the genocide (which you’re trying to downplay as just “war crimes”), they were actively helping commit the genocide.
You’re lying to protect people committing genocide. You are a genocide denier
At least they’re fucking honest! That’s less loathsome than you dishonest fuckers, who are just as genocidal but are also liers. You are more evil than them
Whats this then?
lmao some deep research going on there
More than any of you have provided.
What are shock, the fascist genocide denier is continuing to deny.
what
A screenshot of google search
I see you have no interest in arguing in good faith
Where is it that you fascist fuckers picked up the idea that any disagreement with you is inherently “bad faith”, because you all employ the exact same rote talking point when ever someone points out your genocide denial.
Biden pressured Israel to stop under threat of withholding weapons and funds. And Israel ignored him, then Trump was elected and even encouraged Israel to press further.
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And of course the lemmy.ml user is using dehumanizing language.
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Most sources I find says the opposite of what you claim. And of course you don’t provide sources, argue in bad faith and resort to insults after running out of arguments.
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No. Same amount.
In case you haven’t noticed, https://time.com/7212848/trump-gaza-own/ and https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-palestinians-leave-gaza-us-rebuild/story?id=118463249
I’m not defecting to Trump. I’m a socialist. I’m not supporting either of your genocidal fascists. Both gotta go.
So the solution in this case, would be to not vote? Think about this, if both sides have the same views on a topic, but they aren’t totally the same on every topic, then voters should pick them based on stuff they disagree on. This is actually entirely obvious
Voters should vote for those who represent their interests. If any candidate is endorsing (let alone committing) genocide, and that is a violation of a given voter’s interests (and it damn well better be), then that voter should not vote for that candidate, period. If there are only 2 options and both are genocidal, then neither should be rewarded with a vote. You want “harm reduction”? Then vote for PSL - if your liberal obsession with voting has convinced you that voting has any power whatsoever, then don’t use it to reward genocide, use that power to say no to it entirely. If your position is that “we live under a system where we are getting genocide no matter what” then rather than going “well, there’s a chance this one might be one iota less genocide” maybe start coming to the correct conclusion that the system is indeed irredeemably rotten and rigged FOR genocide, that it is designed to be this way which makes all of that system your enemy, not just the orange team that says the quiet part out loud too much, but also the one that smiles politely and gives the right lip service while literally, not figuratively, but very much actually mass murdering children. Yep, that blue team is your enemy too. So now it’s time to get down to the hard work of building alternative power structures through organization in direct defiance of the genocidal machine, having done away with your petty red(orange)/blue team false dichotomy. Join us in actually working for a better world rather than tossing up your hands and voting for the genocidaires that cry crocodile tears and pretend it’s such a sad state of affairs as they massacre little kids for power and profit. You aren’t actually beholden to support them. They aren’t the “lesser” evil, they’re just another piece of the entire evil machine!
If you boil the entirety political action one can take to a binary choice between 2 Imperialist parties, then you’d have a point. To get to that point, though, you have had to fundamentally ignore the entire argument about voting being perhaps the weakest form of expressing political power one can do.
While voting, the only votes that matter are for the 2 leading parties. A third party vote is equivalent to not voting. Outside of the voting booth, there’s more you can do to push what you actually want. Doing stuff other than voting doesn’t mean you have to completely waste your vote too.
Third party votes do a number of things, from signaling disapproval for the electoral system in general, to supporting parties that one of the lead parties will need to bend towards to capture votes.
Also, only a handful of states even matter, most states aren’t swing states. In these non-swing states, no vote matters. This is part of why voter apathy is so high.
Nobody in power gives a crap about a protest vote, If you spend that time protesting elsewhere you’ll make a bigger impact.
If they didn’t care, they wouldn’t spend millions of dollars to block “protest candidates” from ballots and debates.
People out of power care. The Working Class should signal its own strength by fronting its own party, not the bourgeois parties.
If they aren’t trying to get my vote, why would I vote for them? They’re telling me to fuck off!
A party that’s moderately responsive to its constituents would see their usual voters defecting and try to do something to bring them back. Democrats don’t even clear that low bar.
I had planned to vote for Claudia De La Cruz, but the Democrats sued her off of the ballot in my state.
But they won’t let us take control at the ballot box. The capitalists will turn the guns on us before they hand over their power, even if we followed their rules.
Also, the Dems are working with the GOP to ban ranked choice voting nation wide.
So what? You can write in a candidate. It’s not like it would make any difference either way.
So we’re just going to placidly accept that only two parties can have ballot access in this country?
The thing to fight for is ranked choice voting, or some other method without a spoiler effect. Until you have that, the only thing that matters in the ballot box is the top two candidates. Anything else is equivalent to not voting. I’m saying you should make the choices that have the best actual effect, not make a worthless protest vote to make yourself feel good.
No. The thing is for candidates to endorse ranked choice voting and implement it, and until they do that, they are going to have to deal with the spoiler effect.
This shit is so stupid. “You have to fall in line unconditionally forever, until, out of the kindness of their hearts and against their own interests, the party decides to let you out of that situation.” That’s just saying we have to fall in line unconditionally forever. They’re never going to just give us systemic change, it’s designed this way on purpose and is working exactly the way they want it to.
The only way to actually apply pressure towards getting necessary policies is through setting conditions on your vote based on those policies. This ideology of “lesser-evilism” is completely illogical and incoherent, and the whole reason we’re here is because it’s such an egregious failure. There is no incentive for politicians to implement RCV if they know they’ll have your vote either way. It’s the squeaky wheel that gets the grease.
Whataboutism. And to defend genocide too
I’m saying on that issue both sides are the same
Ok. Still whataboutism