People online complain that Linux is hard to install for new users. But who are these people and why do they levy these complaints? The biggest barrier for the new Linux user isn't the installer; i...
Or users could maybe learn how to do things without having their hands held and treated like babies every step of the way; or at least how to search for information to find what they need… 🤷🏻♂️
This is part of what keeps Linux a niche for enthusiasts and professionals though. The average Windows/Mac user barely understands how to use their computer. Widespread adoption means meeting those people where they are. Whether that’s a goal worth pursuing is kind of a different question.
Nah, I get that we’re all good at different things. But people should be good at doing basic research and troubleshooting.
We use computers all the time. Many of us use cars all the time. And we know how to fuel them up, check and top-up oil, add wiper fluid, check coolant, etc. There’s also the manual to refer to if we don’t know.
Same shit with PCs. But people aren’t willing to put in the bare minimum effort to do shit, and companies take advantage of that to ruin it for everyone.
we should all be extremely well versed in how our government works, how to make meals , how to fix our clothes, how to grow our own food, and how to spot a person who’s scamming us, as well be able to do all of the other specialized things humans need ti stay alive
guarantee neither of us knows everything on that list as well as we should, I a double damn guarantee those re all far more important than a PC .
not that hat you do, or your interest aren’t important to you, and I am not making light of then, but I think you get where I’m heading
took over 55 years for me to stop assuming we all have the same 24 hours we don’t , so we prioritize learning different things to survive
I actually get frustrated when I don’t know how to do something and will spend the time to figure it out… So I may not be well versed in all those points, but I have at least some skill and knowledge in each section.
We don’t all have the same 24 hours, but we should all have the same ability to at least refer to and/or seek out information to get us some understanding of what we’re doing, and yet, here I am in 2025 working with people who are 30+ years old asking me “what’s the Start button?”
A person can only specialize in a small number of things.
I’m happy to learn about computers, but when it comes to, say, cars, I have no desire to learn. If I have a car problem, I don’t have the knowledge of how to even look up a problem.
In today world, you don’t need to specialize in something to fix basic issues. Simple online search will help you with most basic issues You encounter which is probably 60-70% issues most people have with cars, computers or etc.
I don’t blame people that they can’t recompile a kernel, applying a patch to fix some random issue. But I blame people that didn’t want to spend 30s on searching how to fix their minor issue like for example checking execute permission for appimage, Search engines today even tell you how to do it in a small AI window on top of the page.
Internet really helped people to gain a basic knowledge in a matter of seconds and yet they still don’t want it
Just built a new PC literally this weekend. WiFi mouse and Bluetooth drivers did not work out of the box. I had to spend hours searching through what little info exists out there tangentially related to my problem to find:
WiFi drivers were fixed in kernel 6.10, which fortunately Mint let’s you upgrade to 6.11 at this time with relative ease.
Bluetooth drivers do not appear to have been fixed, but I might have a shot if I switch over to a rolling release distro and relearn everything I’m used to from using Debian-based distros for years. Dongle is on order, but I don’t love having to have 2 bluetooth devices.
It’s unclear if mouse drivers have been fixed in the kernel, but I was able to find a nice set of drivers/controller on github which fixed some mouse problems but only if i used their experimental branch and it did not work with my wireless adapter. Very fortunately I had an old wireless adapter from a mouse from the same brand that was able to close the loop, but that was just dumb luck.
By EOD today I should have everything I want working, but it wasn’t “30s” of searching - to your point, 60-70% of problems may be solvable that way, but having 1/3 of your problems require technical expertise is not going to bring Linux out of the hobbyist domain.
Note: this is not a complaint against Linux, just a statement of fact. These things have gotten a lot better over the years, and things get easier to find as the community grows and these struggles get discussed more openly, but there’s still lots of challenges out there that take more than a 30s search.
They could. But you and I both know they won’t because most people don’t care about anything beyond ‘make the magic box work so I can do my job / play my game / etc.’
Because we keep feeding them stupid pills and encouraging them not to think. Microsoft was a pioneer of the whole “water down software and call it user-frienfly’” thing.
That’s not it at all. You don’t think accountants who juggle numbers and Excel formulas all day couldn’t learn? Lawyers whose entire job involves absorbing and filtering vast amounts of information? Doctors who diagnose machines that are far more complex than computers (people)? Of course they could; I worked around these people in IT for 20 years, I can tell you that despite how stupid these folks seem around computers they feel the same way about your capabilities in their field of expertise, only they don’t have the arrogance to assume that everyone should learn to be a mechanical engineer or dentist in order to understand their job.
What they are is too busy doing other shit that they care more about. They don’t have the time or interest to be farting around with a computer to do anything more than the absolute minimum requirements needed to do the shit they actually care about. Human society functions because people specialize, and people who don’t specialize in making computers go just don’t care enough about them as anything other than as a tool and maybe an occasional source of entertainment to waste their time learning. Just like you don’t waste your time learning about how to run a nuclear power plant.
And I say this as someone who used to love tinkering with computers, turned it into a career, and slowly grew to hate it (never turn your hobby into a career if you want to keep that hobby.) I too no longer care about optimizing or fiddling or tweaking, I just want the magic box to work so I can do the stuff I care about (writing, gaming, etc.)
Or users could maybe learn how to do things without having their hands held and treated like babies every step of the way; or at least how to search for information to find what they need… 🤷🏻♂️
This is part of what keeps Linux a niche for enthusiasts and professionals though. The average Windows/Mac user barely understands how to use their computer. Widespread adoption means meeting those people where they are. Whether that’s a goal worth pursuing is kind of a different question.
Or, maybe yo will understand when you grow up that people are good at different things.
Garuntee there’s some pretty easy things for me to do that you would get left behind trying to do, and not just on PC
Same for you. You know some things you’d blow me away doing.
Just because you don’t know what I know , and vice versa, doesn’t mean people are dumb.
Means they’ve learned different things.
Nah, I get that we’re all good at different things. But people should be good at doing basic research and troubleshooting.
We use computers all the time. Many of us use cars all the time. And we know how to fuel them up, check and top-up oil, add wiper fluid, check coolant, etc. There’s also the manual to refer to if we don’t know.
Same shit with PCs. But people aren’t willing to put in the bare minimum effort to do shit, and companies take advantage of that to ruin it for everyone.
we should all be extremely well versed in how our government works, how to make meals , how to fix our clothes, how to grow our own food, and how to spot a person who’s scamming us, as well be able to do all of the other specialized things humans need ti stay alive
guarantee neither of us knows everything on that list as well as we should, I a double damn guarantee those re all far more important than a PC .
not that hat you do, or your interest aren’t important to you, and I am not making light of then, but I think you get where I’m heading
took over 55 years for me to stop assuming we all have the same 24 hours we don’t , so we prioritize learning different things to survive
I actually get frustrated when I don’t know how to do something and will spend the time to figure it out… So I may not be well versed in all those points, but I have at least some skill and knowledge in each section.
We don’t all have the same 24 hours, but we should all have the same ability to at least refer to and/or seek out information to get us some understanding of what we’re doing, and yet, here I am in 2025 working with people who are 30+ years old asking me “what’s the Start button?”
And here I am at 58 years old still having to fix millennial and zoomers issues.
Doesn’t mean all millennials or zoomers are technically illiterate. Means that they had to focus on other things to live in their lives.
Want people to learn how to research and grow? Meet them where they are on their journeys.
search for information when Google intentionally lies to you and hides results to keep you on their site looking at ads longer …
Adblockers will fix part of that. Using the “web” link on the results will make the search a lot better, too.
A person can only specialize in a small number of things.
I’m happy to learn about computers, but when it comes to, say, cars, I have no desire to learn. If I have a car problem, I don’t have the knowledge of how to even look up a problem.
Can you put gas in your car? Do you know how to check your oil and add more? Can you put wiper fuild in? Do you know how to check coolant levels?
Most importantly: do you know how to RTFM to do this stuff if needed?
That would put you miles above the typical PC using idiot that we keep coddling by ruining things we use.
In today world, you don’t need to specialize in something to fix basic issues. Simple online search will help you with most basic issues You encounter which is probably 60-70% issues most people have with cars, computers or etc.
I don’t blame people that they can’t recompile a kernel, applying a patch to fix some random issue. But I blame people that didn’t want to spend 30s on searching how to fix their minor issue like for example checking execute permission for appimage, Search engines today even tell you how to do it in a small AI window on top of the page.
Internet really helped people to gain a basic knowledge in a matter of seconds and yet they still don’t want it
Just built a new PC literally this weekend. WiFi mouse and Bluetooth drivers did not work out of the box. I had to spend hours searching through what little info exists out there tangentially related to my problem to find:
WiFi drivers were fixed in kernel 6.10, which fortunately Mint let’s you upgrade to 6.11 at this time with relative ease.
Bluetooth drivers do not appear to have been fixed, but I might have a shot if I switch over to a rolling release distro and relearn everything I’m used to from using Debian-based distros for years. Dongle is on order, but I don’t love having to have 2 bluetooth devices.
It’s unclear if mouse drivers have been fixed in the kernel, but I was able to find a nice set of drivers/controller on github which fixed some mouse problems but only if i used their experimental branch and it did not work with my wireless adapter. Very fortunately I had an old wireless adapter from a mouse from the same brand that was able to close the loop, but that was just dumb luck.
By EOD today I should have everything I want working, but it wasn’t “30s” of searching - to your point, 60-70% of problems may be solvable that way, but having 1/3 of your problems require technical expertise is not going to bring Linux out of the hobbyist domain.
Note: this is not a complaint against Linux, just a statement of fact. These things have gotten a lot better over the years, and things get easier to find as the community grows and these struggles get discussed more openly, but there’s still lots of challenges out there that take more than a 30s search.
They could. But you and I both know they won’t because most people don’t care about anything beyond ‘make the magic box work so I can do my job / play my game / etc.’
Because we keep feeding them stupid pills and encouraging them not to think. Microsoft was a pioneer of the whole “water down software and call it user-frienfly’” thing.
That’s not it at all. You don’t think accountants who juggle numbers and Excel formulas all day couldn’t learn? Lawyers whose entire job involves absorbing and filtering vast amounts of information? Doctors who diagnose machines that are far more complex than computers (people)? Of course they could; I worked around these people in IT for 20 years, I can tell you that despite how stupid these folks seem around computers they feel the same way about your capabilities in their field of expertise, only they don’t have the arrogance to assume that everyone should learn to be a mechanical engineer or dentist in order to understand their job.
What they are is too busy doing other shit that they care more about. They don’t have the time or interest to be farting around with a computer to do anything more than the absolute minimum requirements needed to do the shit they actually care about. Human society functions because people specialize, and people who don’t specialize in making computers go just don’t care enough about them as anything other than as a tool and maybe an occasional source of entertainment to waste their time learning. Just like you don’t waste your time learning about how to run a nuclear power plant.
And I say this as someone who used to love tinkering with computers, turned it into a career, and slowly grew to hate it (never turn your hobby into a career if you want to keep that hobby.) I too no longer care about optimizing or fiddling or tweaking, I just want the magic box to work so I can do the stuff I care about (writing, gaming, etc.)