The things I hear a lot are that an abuser or bully was just a kid, that she isn’t a bad person and that I’m being judgemental for saying something so mean just because I’m angry, that no one can be truly bad, that I have to forgive her, et cetera.

What actually is forgiveness? Do I have to forgive her? Sure, maybe no one can be truly bad, maybe she’s not a bad person, but I am angry. I am not saying this to her face.

Also, she knows what she’s doing and intentionally hurts others for pleasure. In my opinion, maybe not yours, that does make her a bad person. If she changes and stops it, then she isn’t a bad person anymore, but she was when I knew her.

  • LavaPlanet@lemm.ee
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    15 hours ago

    Here’s an angry explanation / view of it. I like to think of it more like coming to an understanding of why a person would behave that way, so as you can forget them. If you’re angry, they don’t feel that, it doesn’t punish them, it only punishes you because you have to carry around that bitter feeling that taints everything. It can be seen as giving them power over you to think of them at all. Whereas if you can find an understanding, not letting them off the hook, or saying it’s ok, but just that you get why those behaviours come out of people, sometimes. Then you can pity them and look down on them, for choosing that path, so really, it’s just about flipping the power back into your hands.

  • CarbonatedPastaSauce@lemmy.world
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    1 day ago

    Forgiveness is for you, not for them. It’s a process of letting that person’s actions no longer have control over how you feel. You can forgive someone and never tell them.

    • raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world
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      1 day ago

      This here. Forgiveness also doesn’t mean you have to think any better of them, just that you explain their actions differently. E.g. with a lack of empathy or reflection on their character that can be seen as being mentally ill. It doesn’t mean people shouldn’t be protected from them, but it helps (may help) to consider that some people are mentally/emotionally damaged in such a way that they had no capacity to choose to “be better”.

      Accepting that e.g. a toxic upbringing might damage people to the point they are unable to avoid hurting others as much as “normal” people, that can help to move on. You can even accept that some people need to be permanently removed from society (most of silicon valley ceos are such sociopaths) without ruining your day with feelings of hate.

  • peanuts4life@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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    1 day ago

    I second what the other commenters are saying about forgiveness being for you, not to other person, but can I just rant about how useless it is to say no one can truly be bad? It denies the basic utility of words, in my opinion. If someone is an ass, violent, greedy, etc then they are bad. If they change their ways they are good. We have words to describe greedy, violent, assholes. We call them bad people. Hell, a murderer psychopath? Call them evil. It’s why we have adjectives.

    • limer@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      22 hours ago

      All too often I had people ask me find understanding and peace that way. To see how humans worked when broken.

      And it helped in a similar way to if a rock fell on my leg, a geologist could tell me of how it tumbled down by erosion. But such knowledge did not help my leg to recover faster. And no self respecting geologist would tell me to empathize with the hill, much less try to convince me to take the cast off in sympathy to the moved dirt.

      Yet some people tried just that with the humans who hurt me and with my emotional bruising.

      It’s good to know we are all born innocent, but don’t let it get in the way

      • peanuts4life@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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        5 hours ago

        Now that it’s a couple days later, I think I might add a thought to this. It can be invalidating, to have someone ask a victim to empathize with the bully without sufficiently recognizing the victims feelings.

        I used to do this sort of thing. I would try to be objective and logical. I learned that this just made my friends feel crazy, like they might be overreacting. I’ve learned to instead start by validating peoples feelings. I try to recognize thier pain, discomfort, and anger first. And, I never blame people for feeling that anger.

  • limer@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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    1 day ago

    Forgiveness is not necessary if one heals enough, one just moves on. On the other hand forgiveness before healing may block healing.

    This is my own experience.

  • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world
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    1 day ago

    What actually is forgiveness?

    A hard question to answer, as it really varies by individual and circumstance.

    There’s a sociological problem called “kicking the dog”, wherein you abuse someone below you in the social hierarchy and they do the same, until the last person in line is left to abuse the family pet.

    One could argue that forgiveness is about recognizing this chain of abuse and refusing to be a part of it. You aren’t going to inflict someone else’s pain on a person below you. You’re going to recognize they’re a consequence of their own environment and turn it around. Be kind to others in a response to your pain, rather than paying it forward. That doesn’t mean being kind to the person who abused you. It might mean being more generous and kind hearted towards someone you see suffering as you did.

    One could also argue that forgiveness is about forgiving yourself. Abuse victims - particularly members of a family who all endure the abuse together - may feel responsible for the abuser’s actions. They may feel like they failed in their duty to protect a child or sibling. And they might begin to punish themselves even after the abuser has left, because they’ve internalized the abuse as justified. Acknowledging that you’re not Superman - able to effortlessly absorb and defect others’ anger - and you aren’t the one responsible for the abuser’s actions is a step towards relieving your own guilt.

    In the end, it is about freeing yourself from the enforced stocism that abuse encourages. Don’t let their cruelty harden your heart towards yourself or others.

  • Cyborganism@lemmy.ca
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    1 day ago

    You don’t owe anyone anything. Unless you really feel like it’s deserved, you don’t have to forgive an abuser.