It depends on how you define “don’t be a dick”. Marxists, of which there are many in the lemmyverse, brand everything with which they disagree as “fascist”, i.e. “being a dick”.
Yeah, one look at your banner, and it’s very clear that you’re willfully obtuse in this regard. Someone else’s humanity, and right to live freely and peacefully without harassment, isn’t up for debate. The line is pretty easy to identify- “am I dehumanizing someone?”, and if you struggle with that, this isn’t the space for you. If you embrace christofascism, expect pushback.
Trying applying those principles to unborn babies and I won’t think you’re a hypocrite. I don’t mind push back but what I most often encounter from Marxists is censorship. I think deep down they realize that when subjected to reason, their ideology fails.
I was referring to your obvious bigotry towards trans and queer people, but clearly there are all sorts of problems with christofascist views, thanks for highlighting that for me ;) lol at your mentions of “ideology” while simultaneously repeating old canned talking points from alt right propaganda.
No one owes you a platform. In fact, christofascists and those who break the treaty of tolerance very much deserve to be deplatformed. Your views aren’t based on reality or evidence, and only serve to dehumanize.
And FYI, since you brought it up, abortion is a medical procedure that is between a patient and their doctor. A retired “Christian” Navy vet who supports Desantis is the absolute LAST person whose opinions should be respected on that subject.
Don’t use the term, “alt right”. They started calling themselves the “alt” right because they didn’t like the word, “extreme”. Call them what they are, right wing extremists, neo-fascists, and/or christofascists.
oh I hear you on that! that’s why I never call them nazis either, there’s far less semantic wiggle room in the term christofascist and it’s a much better descriptor anyways for their chosen flavour of hate. I’ve never really given consideration to the “alt” descriptor before, food for thought and I appreciate it :)
Yes. It’s very important not to leave yourself open to pedantic arguments. Nazis are a specific flavour of fascist but not all fascists are members of the Nazi party. It also opens you to their throwing Godwin’s Law in your face as though it should stop you from calling them Nazis. If that happens it’s important to be able to quote Mike Godwin himself:
Everybody has a right to their opinions, whether they be Marxist, Conservative or Born Again Christian. We should respect that, regardless if you agree with them or not. Generation Z and others have too many feelings, but not enough life experience. Most of the world is conservative in views, whether we like it or not
All the creatures we create are our children. All of them are owed their creator’s unconditional love. But instead, you murder, butcher and eat them. Spare me your crocodile tears for all the babies you don’t really give a shit about.
Capitalism is where the people do most of the work and the wealthy oligarchs/plutocrats get most of the benefit.
Communism is where the people do most of the work and the government/cleptocrats get most of the benefit.
Socialism is where the people do most of the work and the people get most of the benefit.
Libertarianism is FAR more closely aligned with socialism than it is with fascism. The fascists have just coopted libertarianism, Prosperity Libertarianism, to say, “I’ve got mine, fuck you.”
I want the smallest government possible to effectively run the country. I want the government to leave me the fuck alone and not tell me who I can love, fuck, or marry, how I can dress, what I can and can’t do with my body, what I can eat or drink or smoke. I want a government that works FOR the people not against them. I don’t want the government and the police to be the enforcement arm for corporations and the wealthy. I don’t want corporations writing laws to benefit them at the expense of the people. I don’t want the government propping up corporations. If they fail, they fail and another will rise to take their place. If it’s a better it will succeed and survive. If not it will fail and be replaced again. I want unions everywhere. They protect workers and increase productivity.
I’m also smart enough that the only solution to a social problem is a social solution. The US government has spent more than $1.5 trillion dollars since 1976 fighting the “war on drugs” and drugs won. All the war on drugs did was make a bunch of rich people richer.
What do you think I’m redefining? The right always points to Marxism for its example of socialism. Marxism and socialism are VERY different. Is Sweden a Marxist society? Norway? Finland? Canada?
socialism, social and economic doctrine that calls for public rather than private ownership or control of property and natural resources. According to the socialist view, individuals do not live or work in isolation but live in cooperation with one another. Furthermore, everything that people produce is in some sense a social product, and everyone who contributes to the production of a good is entitled to a share in it.
I don’t know about you but I believe that everyone SHOULD be entitled to a share of what they produced. Taking what they produce and giving it to an oligarch who gives them a pittance in return sounds very much like theft to me.
I don’t know whether you’re being disingenuous when you play dumb about redefining things that you don’t like and using loaded language, or if you’re just that far gone. Either way… I’m the stupid one here for engaging in the first place.
Then you go off on a bunch of ideological shit that I never said thing one about. You’re arguing with the voices in your head again.
I’ve seen the stupid shit you say before, but I won’t in the future. Problem solved.
Why are you so upset? You seem to be the only person here hurling insults. Perhaps you need to do a bit of self-reflection.
Maybe start here. The only person trying to redefine socialism is you. You’re using the One True Scotsman fallacy to try to define all socialism at Marxism which is disingenuous.
How is it theft that the people who do the work enjoy the benefits of that work? Why should the wealthy get 99% of the benefit of the people’s labour? That’s theft. Libertarians DO find theft abhorrent but the people who call themselves libertarians now are Prosperity Libertarians who are to libertarianism as Prosperity Christians are to Christianity. They are NOT libertarians.
Socialism is the belief that the product of labor belongs to the people creating it- Workers.
And not to the capital owners who contribute nothing to production.
In that frame of view, the Capitalists steal surplus value from the workers - The difference between wages and the value of product. And as such, taking back the means of production & the spoils of the capitalist parasites isn’t theft, it’s reclaiming of one’s rightful property.
For the longest time, Libertarian was a polite word for Anarchist. Then it was stolen.
And Anarchists are socialists. Libertarian Socialism can then either be Anarchism, or it can be Socialism or Communism which is otherwise anti-authoritarian or skeptical of state power.
You could arguably label someone like Rosa Luxembourg a libertarian socialist.
@MapleEngineer
It depends on how you define “don’t be a dick”. Marxists, of which there are many in the lemmyverse, brand everything with which they disagree as “fascist”, i.e. “being a dick”.
cc: @samael
Yeah, one look at your banner, and it’s very clear that you’re willfully obtuse in this regard. Someone else’s humanity, and right to live freely and peacefully without harassment, isn’t up for debate. The line is pretty easy to identify- “am I dehumanizing someone?”, and if you struggle with that, this isn’t the space for you. If you embrace christofascism, expect pushback.
@oneofthemladygoats
Trying applying those principles to unborn babies and I won’t think you’re a hypocrite. I don’t mind push back but what I most often encounter from Marxists is censorship. I think deep down they realize that when subjected to reason, their ideology fails.
cc: @MapleEngineer @samael
I was referring to your obvious bigotry towards trans and queer people, but clearly there are all sorts of problems with christofascist views, thanks for highlighting that for me ;) lol at your mentions of “ideology” while simultaneously repeating old canned talking points from alt right propaganda.
No one owes you a platform. In fact, christofascists and those who break the treaty of tolerance very much deserve to be deplatformed. Your views aren’t based on reality or evidence, and only serve to dehumanize.
And FYI, since you brought it up, abortion is a medical procedure that is between a patient and their doctor. A retired “Christian” Navy vet who supports Desantis is the absolute LAST person whose opinions should be respected on that subject.
Don’t use the term, “alt right”. They started calling themselves the “alt” right because they didn’t like the word, “extreme”. Call them what they are, right wing extremists, neo-fascists, and/or christofascists.
oh I hear you on that! that’s why I never call them nazis either, there’s far less semantic wiggle room in the term christofascist and it’s a much better descriptor anyways for their chosen flavour of hate. I’ve never really given consideration to the “alt” descriptor before, food for thought and I appreciate it :)
Yes. It’s very important not to leave yourself open to pedantic arguments. Nazis are a specific flavour of fascist but not all fascists are members of the Nazi party. It also opens you to their throwing Godwin’s Law in your face as though it should stop you from calling them Nazis. If that happens it’s important to be able to quote Mike Godwin himself:
deleted by creator
Everybody has a right to their opinions, whether they be Marxist, Conservative or Born Again Christian. We should respect that, regardless if you agree with them or not. Generation Z and others have too many feelings, but not enough life experience. Most of the world is conservative in views, whether we like it or not
All the creatures we create are our children. All of them are owed their creator’s unconditional love. But instead, you murder, butcher and eat them. Spare me your crocodile tears for all the babies you don’t really give a shit about.
I’m a socialist libertarian. Disagreement is fine just don’t be a dick.
@MapleEngineer
“Socialist libertarian” sounds like an oxymoron to me. Please elaborate.
cc: @samael
Capitalism is where the people do most of the work and the wealthy oligarchs/plutocrats get most of the benefit.
Communism is where the people do most of the work and the government/cleptocrats get most of the benefit.
Socialism is where the people do most of the work and the people get most of the benefit.
Libertarianism is FAR more closely aligned with socialism than it is with fascism. The fascists have just coopted libertarianism, Prosperity Libertarianism, to say, “I’ve got mine, fuck you.”
I want the smallest government possible to effectively run the country. I want the government to leave me the fuck alone and not tell me who I can love, fuck, or marry, how I can dress, what I can and can’t do with my body, what I can eat or drink or smoke. I want a government that works FOR the people not against them. I don’t want the government and the police to be the enforcement arm for corporations and the wealthy. I don’t want corporations writing laws to benefit them at the expense of the people. I don’t want the government propping up corporations. If they fail, they fail and another will rise to take their place. If it’s a better it will succeed and survive. If not it will fail and be replaced again. I want unions everywhere. They protect workers and increase productivity.
I’m also smart enough that the only solution to a social problem is a social solution. The US government has spent more than $1.5 trillion dollars since 1976 fighting the “war on drugs” and drugs won. All the war on drugs did was make a bunch of rich people richer.
You don’t just get to redefine things to suit your ideology.
What do you think I’m redefining? The right always points to Marxism for its example of socialism. Marxism and socialism are VERY different. Is Sweden a Marxist society? Norway? Finland? Canada?
I don’t know about you but I believe that everyone SHOULD be entitled to a share of what they produced. Taking what they produce and giving it to an oligarch who gives them a pittance in return sounds very much like theft to me.
I don’t know whether you’re being disingenuous when you play dumb about redefining things that you don’t like and using loaded language, or if you’re just that far gone. Either way… I’m the stupid one here for engaging in the first place.
Then you go off on a bunch of ideological shit that I never said thing one about. You’re arguing with the voices in your head again.
I’ve seen the stupid shit you say before, but I won’t in the future. Problem solved.
Why are you so upset? You seem to be the only person here hurling insults. Perhaps you need to do a bit of self-reflection.
Maybe start here. The only person trying to redefine socialism is you. You’re using the One True Scotsman fallacy to try to define all socialism at Marxism which is disingenuous.
apt user name, anyways, lol
@MapleEngineer
It seems to me that Socialism is predicated on theft, which Libertarians find abhorrent. Is there some cognitive dissonance going on here?
cc: @samael
How is it theft that the people who do the work enjoy the benefits of that work? Why should the wealthy get 99% of the benefit of the people’s labour? That’s theft. Libertarians DO find theft abhorrent but the people who call themselves libertarians now are Prosperity Libertarians who are to libertarianism as Prosperity Christians are to Christianity. They are NOT libertarians.
@MapleEngineer
I think you have committed the “No True Scotsman” logical fallacy.
cc: @samael
I guess we’re done then.
Have a good day.
@MapleEngineer
Thanks for the conversation.
cc: @samael
Socialism is the belief that the product of labor belongs to the people creating it- Workers.
And not to the capital owners who contribute nothing to production.
In that frame of view, the Capitalists steal surplus value from the workers - The difference between wages and the value of product. And as such, taking back the means of production & the spoils of the capitalist parasites isn’t theft, it’s reclaiming of one’s rightful property.
@BloodForTheBloodGod
Capital can consist of saved earnings. It is OK to steal such capital?
cc: @MapleEngineer @samael
That’s not what capital means. And frankly, the 0.0001% of the time when someone invests something they’ve actually earned, I don’t care.
We reclaim the remaining 99.999998% of capital for the working class, and I think that’s a solid place to start.
For the longest time, Libertarian was a polite word for Anarchist. Then it was stolen.
And Anarchists are socialists. Libertarian Socialism can then either be Anarchism, or it can be Socialism or Communism which is otherwise anti-authoritarian or skeptical of state power.
You could arguably label someone like Rosa Luxembourg a libertarian socialist.