Hey guys, I’m trying to see if one of the two games is worth getting.
I really like Battlestar galactica and got every extensions. Now the problem with Battlestar galactica is that the game is very long and it takes a lot of time to explain the rules to people… From what I’ve read Nemesis can fix the issue as the basic rules are simple and quick to explain and the game only needs 1 player to know the rest.
Now I have several questions: -I read that like in BSG people may have different objectives. How does it work exactly? Do you get these from the start? Can you become an enemy mid-game because you got infected or something? Is there some kind of bluffing involved like in BSG? -I don’t have much board games, but this one looks expensive to me. Is there any reason for it and do you think it’s worth the money? -What would your recommend between Nemesis and Nemesis: Lockdown? -Do you think maybe there are other games that may be a good replacement for BSG?
Thank you!
I recently added Lockdown to my collection on top of the original Nemesis. They’re both absolutely amazing story generators. The second one is a bit more optimized for learning, teaching, and playing. I would strongly recommend Lockdown over the original. Not because it is way better, it just has several desirable improvements, but because if picking one over the other, those refinements are things you don’t want to choose to play without.
Huh… I have both as well and I think the original is better in that regard. It has less mechanics (contingencies, Pod ejection schedule…) making it much easier to understand for beginners. Also I like the theme and the alien design more, but this is subjective of course. In our gaming group we have generally more fun with OG Nemesis (only slightly though, lockdown is great too). I’d choose the original over lockdown.
Thanks, I see!
Disclaimer: Played BSG a couple of times, Nemesis just once (plus watched one gameplay of it).
I think the main difference is that in BSG you have one objective for the humans and one for Cylons, while in Nemesis each player has their own. These objectives can align or at least not be in direct oposition but can also be exclusive. Only common objective is to survive. So it is co-op to a point, but also every man for himself.
BSG is also mostly focused around the player interactions. The interactions with the game are secondary in a way. Nemesis is in a way more about what is happening on a board, with you trying to find out who you can trust will not screw up your objective - and also who you need to screw over (if needed) to get there.
As for the price Nemesis has lots of components among which are quite nice minis.
Thanks, this is more clear, I had definitely misunderstood the conflicting objective part, thinking you may even get infected and switch side.
The infection is something that can kill you. If aliens attack you may get status card which you need to examine (only by useof item or certain room) to see if you are infected. If you end the game but are infected you die and loose. There aren’t any sides really.
I played both and I found them, as a not regular Nemisis player similar. But I just wanted to add: at the Spiel they displayed a new Nemesis. Didn’t check it out but maybe it is a valuable info for you before you buy
What is the Spiel? Do you mean they may be releasing a new Nemesis soon?
Thanks, indeed that may be worth to wait a bit
The Spiel is a boardgame fair in Germany. Pretty big and international.
Never played BSG, but my friends and I play Nemesis and Lockdown regularly. Highly repayable and usually plays out like a movie plot. I wouldn’t say the rules are simple, but they are once players understand the rules, gameplay is straightforward. Like you said, as long as one player understands them, you are good to go.
The complex part is that there are many variations. Usually, it’s a coop game, but variations can change that:
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add a 6th player as the aliens or the first player that dies can pick up as the aliens so they aren’t left out.
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the missions as you mentioned can pit people against each other. Whether it’s contradicting missions ‘destroy the ship’ vs ‘send the ship to mars’ or straight ‘player 3 must not survive’. Most missions have a cooperative option. The choice is at the discretion of the player, so it will change each time.
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expansions introduce other variables that could pit players against each other. I believe carnomorph has a variant that causes players to go insane. I haven’t played that, but I’m assuming that would create conflict.
Personally, I like original nemesis over lockdown. I feel it allows players to change strategy for survival, which enables people to build trust only to betray each other more than lockdown does. Lockdown is more challenging due to some of the different mechanics, which I feel contributes to players not changing strategies midway through. I’d recommend original if you want player conflict, but lockdown if you want challenging coop (which original supports as well). Might be biased because we’ve played original more, but that’s my current take.
For your questions:
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objectives/missions mentioned above. Players get 2 at the start and must pick when the first intruder appears. Typically you don’t want others to know your objective if you picked the noncoop objective.
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it is expensive, but I feel it’s worth it. As mentioned, highly repayable. Additionally, the miniatures you get are really good - most games like that are expensive. If you like to paint miniatures, it’s well worth the price.
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original vs lockdown mentioned above.
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not familiar with BSG, but horrified seems like a much more simplified nemesis, so maybe that?
Happy to answer any other questions. It’s a fun experience. It’s also available on Tabletop Simulator if you want to try before you buy.
Edits: formating
Edit: I forgot to mention, Nemesis can take 3-4 hours for setup, breakdown, teaching the first couple times. Depending on the number of people and attention span, 1.5 hours for gameplay, 30-45 minutes for setup and breakdown. Usually, my friends and I have brunch with our families as well when we play, so distractions happen a lot for us.
Edit: two other variants worth mentioning:
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instead of everyone taking an individual mission, they do provide a deck of team objectives. All players are focused on the single team objective. Obviously this is coop only, but these objectives are multi-step and require everyone to participate.
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Given Lockdown is the story after what happens after the original, it supports use of the playable characters and intruders from the original. This would allow for a ‘campaign’ where you allow your players that survived nemesis to see what happens when their ship lands and they are quarantined in Lockdown.
Thanks for the detailed answer!
I have checked Horrified, but it seems this is different than BSG. As someone else said, I think I have misunderstood the conflicting objectives. In BSG there are 2 sides and you hide what side you’re playing on. Also you may turn evil mid game (maybe like the insane variant). So at any point in the game, you may never be sure who to trust or not.
For Nemesis, I didn’t think the time to setup/breakdown/teach would be so long… Well this seems this is not the BSG alternative I was looking for. The game looks really nice and I had never heard of Tabletop Simulator, so I’m definitely going to give it a try. Thank you!
Gotcha, might not be as involved but you may want to check out some of the Dark city games by facade games. The general theme on those is 2 or more factions pitted against each other with some social deduction because you don’t know who’s on which team. Those are generally fairly quick and easy. Secrets is another similar game. All of those were pretty fun and sit a large group too.
As for Nemesis, yea, it is a bit of a time sink. I don’t think I’ve ever unboxed and reboxed under the 2 hour mark - even when it is just my friend and I moving briskly. That said, certainly give it a shot on Tabletop Simulator. It’s one of my favorite games because how the game reacts to what players do, which just sets chaos into motion.
Tabletop Simulator has tons of free games available, and they are all done very well. Certainly a gem. The idea of subscribing to make a game playable is kind of weird but makes sense after a bit.
Dark city games looks like a very simple BSG, I can see the same mechanics with the deck playing some random cards that can pollute the votes. I’m definitely getting one of these, thanks!
When I think of BSG, what comes to mind for me is something like Panic Station, or maybe Human Punishment (the Beginning). Maybe take a look at those three games if you don’t know them already.
Thanks! I’ve checked Human Punishment, indeed it looks like a kind of BSG. From BGG, it seems it is about as long as BSG. I’ve watched a video with rules explained, there are a lot of options, I’m not sure if it would be any faster than BSG to explain them
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Have you thought about New Angeles?
Nemesis is a great game, but very dissimilar to battlestar. If you are keen for nemesis and social games, get the original. The layout of the map and goal objectives lend themselves better to paranoia and sabotage.
According to your link, New Angeles is even longer than BSG.
Ok, thanks for the advice!
I’d classify battlestar is an easy game. Both Nemesis and New Angeles are more complex to teach and learn to new, especially non-hobbyist, people. However, this also means games don’t drag on or feel long; even if you’re loosing there’s something to think about and time flies.
I would find it difficult to enjoy a short negotiation game - as the consequences over time are part of the fun. For something short and social I might recommended Ra or Modern Art, both by Knizia, while not having traitor mechanics someone will betray a deal every game.
That’s true. Thanks I’ll look into these!