Re: the title…
Yeah no, owners of an expensive property are not only not in the “rich” class, they’re likely working class as much as gig drivers and cashiers. Unless they liquidate this asset and actually go live somewhere LCOL where they can live off of the labour of others, they’re still working class.
Exactly, articles like this are just confusing the meaning of class.
What makes you a member of “the working class” is that you are forced to sell your labour to survive. Fullstop. A tradesperson, and a lawyer, and a burgerflipper are all in the same class from that point of view.
As soon as your accumulated capital becomes large enough that you earn your income only as a result of your capital, then you are no longer working class, and that’s when your interests diverge from the average worker and average homebuyer or renter.
A landlord with no other job, the major shareholders of a profitable business, a wealthy heir, those people make their money by siphoning value off of other people’s work without actually needing to spend their time on work.
Long story short: I have no problem with a 50 year old plumber with a large family who legitimately uses that 4500 sqft house.
My issue is with Karen who used dad’s money to buy 8 properties to airBnB them and insists she get special treatment because her business risks didn’t pan out.
As soon as your accumulated capital becomes large enough that you earn your income only as a result of your capital, then you are no longer working class, and that’s when your interests diverge from the average worker and average homebuyer or renter.
Interestingly, almost everyone in government is a member of the capitalist class, largely because people that sell their labour can’t afford the time, let alone the money, to run for office.
In case you wondered why the interests of labour are grossly underrepresented in government, despite that vast, vast majority of both citizens and voters being of the working class, this is why.
That is the point though, if like the article says l, 1/5th of owners have an investment property, they could sell it and still live in the current place and have a ton of cash. or sell both and move to a cheaper city and
retire. Compared to people struggling to save for a mortgage in this crazy market.
1/5th of owners have an investment property, they could sell it and still live in the current place and have a ton of cash
That’s fair, and the article goes through a few key points that I agree with. The article title is just clickbait, but annoying because it’s alienating. I don’t think it makes sense to write a headline based on 1/5th of that group being land speculators.
:-) the middle class is the subset of the working class that has no food insecurity but has a lot of social & image insecurity
But like the rest of the working class, the middle class is one or two tragedies away from becoming homeless and marginalized, despite the lack of awareness regarding so
There never has been. You either sell your body and labour, or own enough capital for it to self sustain, or at least be sustained by the labour class.
If we’re doing Marx, don’t forget the petite bourgeoisie, who draw significant income from both. They were minor in Marx’s day, partly because very little was publicly traded, but they’re actually the wealthiest group by far now, taken as a whole.
What if you have already “borrowed against it” and the thing you bought is the house itself? You know, a mortgage. How is a regular family with a mortgage not middle class?
Any age considerations here? 50+ year olds with no pension whose entire net worth is tied up in their home are not middle class?
A retired couple that have a reverse mortgage on their home to supplement their insufficient income are not middle class?
Honestly, even a regular person that busted their ass to pay off their house and who eventually bought a run-down property that they poured all their free time for years to fix up and rent out is not suddenly a member of the 1%.
You know what, I “own” the house my 4 kids call home. I owe pretty close to what it is worth and I can barely afford anything else with mortgage rates where they are ( certainly more than rent would be ). It needs some repairs that are going to force me to borrow from somewhere. I work two jobs ( decent ones ) trying to keep it all going. If I lose the house, I will end up with a net worth lower than a homeless person. And I have dipshits on the Internet lashing out at my wealth and privilege. For the love of God, who are you people?
People who have no idea how mortgages work. People who dont grok that 99% of “homeowners” pay a bank every month just like a renter pays a landlord and can still get the boot if they fail to do so. People who are mad and lashing out in the wrong direction like teenagers.
“Owning” the home my family lives in does not make me rich, it means I took on a huge debt. Now if they want to have a discussion about investment properties then I am all ears.
On the “sell it like any other asset”, you still have to live somewhere, those places cost money. On the “borrow against it”, now you’ve got debt (that costs money to have), I guess your saying anyone with that much money should be able to make more money off it via leverage than they use?
When i think rich, i think doesn’t have to work, but maybe that’s independently wealthy.
We’re using different definitions of the word “rich”. In my definition, the one I personally see as more useful because it aligns with class struggle and shared policy interests, having a bunch of wealth parked in a passive asset is not enough to tip you over to the group of people who benefit from inequality.
Re: the title… Yeah no, owners of an expensive property are not only not in the “rich” class, they’re likely working class as much as gig drivers and cashiers. Unless they liquidate this asset and actually go live somewhere LCOL where they can live off of the labour of others, they’re still working class.
Exactly, articles like this are just confusing the meaning of class.
What makes you a member of “the working class” is that you are forced to sell your labour to survive. Fullstop. A tradesperson, and a lawyer, and a burgerflipper are all in the same class from that point of view.
As soon as your accumulated capital becomes large enough that you earn your income only as a result of your capital, then you are no longer working class, and that’s when your interests diverge from the average worker and average homebuyer or renter.
A landlord with no other job, the major shareholders of a profitable business, a wealthy heir, those people make their money by siphoning value off of other people’s work without actually needing to spend their time on work.
Long story short: I have no problem with a 50 year old plumber with a large family who legitimately uses that 4500 sqft house.
My issue is with Karen who used dad’s money to buy 8 properties to airBnB them and insists she get special treatment because her business risks didn’t pan out.
Interestingly, almost everyone in government is a member of the capitalist class, largely because people that sell their labour can’t afford the time, let alone the money, to run for office.
In case you wondered why the interests of labour are grossly underrepresented in government, despite that vast, vast majority of both citizens and voters being of the working class, this is why.
That is the point though, if like the article says l, 1/5th of owners have an investment property, they could sell it and still live in the current place and have a ton of cash. or sell both and move to a cheaper city and retire. Compared to people struggling to save for a mortgage in this crazy market.
That’s fair, and the article goes through a few key points that I agree with. The article title is just clickbait, but annoying because it’s alienating. I don’t think it makes sense to write a headline based on 1/5th of that group being land speculators.
“1/5 of Homeowners Refuse to Accept the Awkward Truth: They’re Rich”
Or
“Multi-property Homeowners Refuse to Accept the Awkward Truth: They’re Rich”
Or
“Multi-property owners Refuse to Accept the Awkward Truth: They’re Rich”
Or
“Landlords and Spectors Refuse to Accept the Awkward Truth: They’re Rich”
It made us both click on it :)
If you’re dicing things up that way, there’s no middle class in the first place.
:-) the middle class is the subset of the working class that has no food insecurity but has a lot of social & image insecurity
But like the rest of the working class, the middle class is one or two tragedies away from becoming homeless and marginalized, despite the lack of awareness regarding so
That’s as good a definition as any I guess.
There never has been. You either sell your body and labour, or own enough capital for it to self sustain, or at least be sustained by the labour class.
If we’re doing Marx, don’t forget the petite bourgeoisie, who draw significant income from both. They were minor in Marx’s day, partly because very little was publicly traded, but they’re actually the wealthiest group by far now, taken as a whole.
Exactly, you’re either a part of the working class or capitalist class
Of course there is no middle class!
That doesn’t make any sense. If you have a million dollar house, you can borrow against it or sell it like any other asset. Yes you’re rich.
What if you have already “borrowed against it” and the thing you bought is the house itself? You know, a mortgage. How is a regular family with a mortgage not middle class?
Any age considerations here? 50+ year olds with no pension whose entire net worth is tied up in their home are not middle class?
A retired couple that have a reverse mortgage on their home to supplement their insufficient income are not middle class?
Honestly, even a regular person that busted their ass to pay off their house and who eventually bought a run-down property that they poured all their free time for years to fix up and rent out is not suddenly a member of the 1%.
You know what, I “own” the house my 4 kids call home. I owe pretty close to what it is worth and I can barely afford anything else with mortgage rates where they are ( certainly more than rent would be ). It needs some repairs that are going to force me to borrow from somewhere. I work two jobs ( decent ones ) trying to keep it all going. If I lose the house, I will end up with a net worth lower than a homeless person. And I have dipshits on the Internet lashing out at my wealth and privilege. For the love of God, who are you people?
People who have no idea how mortgages work. People who dont grok that 99% of “homeowners” pay a bank every month just like a renter pays a landlord and can still get the boot if they fail to do so. People who are mad and lashing out in the wrong direction like teenagers.
“Owning” the home my family lives in does not make me rich, it means I took on a huge debt. Now if they want to have a discussion about investment properties then I am all ears.
Lol nobody thinks a mortgage is an asset, it’s a liability duh.
On the “sell it like any other asset”, you still have to live somewhere, those places cost money. On the “borrow against it”, now you’ve got debt (that costs money to have), I guess your saying anyone with that much money should be able to make more money off it via leverage than they use?
When i think rich, i think doesn’t have to work, but maybe that’s independently wealthy.
Right? How is it “any other asset” when you need it to live?
We’re using different definitions of the word “rich”. In my definition, the one I personally see as more useful because it aligns with class struggle and shared policy interests, having a bunch of wealth parked in a passive asset is not enough to tip you over to the group of people who benefit from inequality.
So in that case the middle class were always “rich” by your definition