I have noticed a huge difference between Lemmygrad and Lemmy.ml in terms of what kinds of theory gets upvoted and downvoted. What is the general vibe on here towards actually existing socialism as well as the ideas towards reformism?

  • Snart@beehaw.org
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    1 year ago

    A lot of the socialists on Lemmy.ml are MLs (hence the domain) and many of them are authoritarian leftist or at least sympathetic to the authoritarian reformism of that of Stalin. I personally prefer the Beehaw socialism community as it is inherently anti-authoritarian. Lemmygrad is a tankie infested cesspit with brainrotten propaganda regurgitators who have never read theory and struggle to fit the definitions of Leftists.

    • Zstom6IP@lemmy.ml
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      1 year ago

      im so glad that people here dislike that tankie hellhole, because i tried to join and had a terrible experience.

      • Snart@beehaw.org
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        1 year ago

        I joined them back when I was a lib because I wanted to learn more about communism and I was met with genocide denial or even support and all the authoritarian sucking up you can imagine. Now I’m a communist and I still think there’s not even a single positive attribute of lemmygrad except as an example of how even people with lobotomies can regurgitate authoritarian and totalitarian propaganda.

    • strwbrryJen@mastodon.social
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      1 year ago

      @ivereadalltheory @CharmingOwl yes MLs are authoritarian, im not sure why this surprises you. Engels wrote about authority quite a lot and id reccomend giving his work ‘on authority’ a look; its at most a ten minute read

      tho i have seen my fare share of poor takes coming out of lemmy

      • Snart@beehaw.org
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        1 year ago

        I’ve read On Authority. There’s good reason for my identifying as a socialist rather than a ML. I don’t necessarily have a fundamental disagreement with the use of authoritarianism, however the way in which it has ever been implemented has been abominable and the defense of that by most MLs I’ve interacted with leads me to detest them when they’re aware of what they’re doing or assume they’re an idiot who’s fallen to the USSR billboard propaganda aesthetic if they’re not.

        • gaberlunzie@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          … let’s get some historical conditions straight: USSR was a wartime communism born and deformed by Western invasion (from USA and allies, no less) and persisted under a state of seige, so it didn’t have the luxury of a more democratic communism envisioned by Lenin. Even today, aligned with Trotskyist permanent revolution everywhere but their own govts, the same usual suspects are angling by invasion or insurgency to break up and loot Russia (along with China) who isn’t caught off-guard this time. Existential then, existential now.

          I would also love to know what you think of the standard bogies of Cuba and Venezuela, or heck, even ML Vietnam or Kerala.

          • Eldritch@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            While the west was unquestionably antagonistic. Which you know is sort of a thing that can happen when you unilaterally overthrow a number of countries governments than forcibly annex them.

            How in any way does Western antagonism justify those nations treatment of their own people? And how on earth can an anti-democratic uniparty ever be Democratic? Are you trying to convince anyone that there were no gulags etc? Or that it was ever good for dissenters? I mean we could ask all the people that were disappeared or assassinated. Not just in Russia. But in North Korea and China too. Do we need to mention tiananmen square or the Uyghurs? But they’re dead and gone. Cuba I think is a much more nuanced and better example. But still heavily flawed and problematic. You cannot blame it all on Western antagonism. It isn’t some panacea that alleviates you of all fault. Authoritarian communism is antithesis to Marx’s own theory. And will never work in reality. Authoritarianism is always destined to fail. No matter how long it drags on.

            • gaberlunzie@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              As for Uighurs, they’re thriving and developing most rapidly in Xinjiang province, while the Western-backed extremist are indeed no more, exiled to their sponsors. Of course, the West has no problem sponsoring extremists, be it Nazis in Ukraine, Isis (and White Helmets) in Syria, rightwing death squads in the Americas, etc.

              In the case of Tiananmen, that was an early colour revolution that got rightly squashed, demonstrating the need for strong government against foreign interventions that China is no stranger to since the 1800s regarding Japan and the West.

              Almost forgot to mention, North Korea was bombed almost to oblivion until the USA literally ran out of bombs. Speaks for itself. .

            • gaberlunzie@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              You realise the USA has its own slave labour gulag unmatched by Russia and China today, right? Though Soviet gulag was ruthless, born to meet rapid wartime industrialisation and unrelenting landowners (kulaks), it was more lax and informal than Auschwitz death camps that you wish to portray.

              Meanwhile, Jim Crow and sundown towns in the USA oversaw its own apartheid underclass, many of whom looked to Soviet Russia for equity, Paul Robeson being the most notable.

              Edit: replaced Tsarist-era ‘The Black Russian’ episode with more intended Soviet-era link, quite belatedly.

    • gaberlunzie@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      … in other words, Behaw socialism (lemmy.ml too) is Trotskyist, origin of many a Neocon: liberal socialism at the vanguard of Western imperialism against the array of global socialism ranging from Bolivarian in the Americas to Maoist in Asia. “Global” as in Global South, all authoritarian to a Trotskyite, in need of liberation.