I can’t quite parse what you mean by that, do you mean with either or?

yeah I meant a/ what can you do using specific ability and then b/ what can you do in general without them

I’m assuming they’re also changing the wish-like spells for each tradition like alter reality then? I’d like to see if outside of that they’ll put back a joker style spell (the cast any spell of a lower level part of wish) or if it’s something they’re moving away from. It feel like a good option to have as a caster, one way or another, and I’m not sure I’m a fan of seeing it fully go away

Probably fully?

Beastkin because I’m a rabid furry and likely wizard because magic is cool

Looking at the success effect (without persistent damage) it feels like an overpriced fireball at 5th level. You’d want roughly 5d6 worth of blast on success, not 3d6, I don’t know how relevant/powerful spirit damage will be though, not like the divine list is know for it’s good blast so it might see play regardless due to that

Not sure if that’s including or excluding the action total since you only get 4 to split for 2 character (instead of 6 between 2 actual characters). Like, if your eidolon was a full fighter and your summoner a full sorcerer, you’d already “roughly” be worth 2/3 of each of them from action economy alone (modulo the fact that the last action is a bit weaker than the first one). I’d probably put them between 1/3 and 2/3 but definitely closer to 1/2 when considering the action economy

Oh yeah, not a bad thing! Just an expensive one, on a class that already has cash issues it can feel limiting that you’re geared toward having more diverse skills but are too poor to. The core of the argument was for attack and spellcasting supporting item anyway

not fully vanilla, But Witches+ Conjure Gadget + Blood Duplicate has gotten me some mileage, gadgets aren’t magical nor (usually) made of precious stuff, and being able to get an extra consumable like a smoke fan out of my hourly cast is pretty handy. Vanilla, it probably works similarly with other restricted item conjuration spells like Creation as a mean to quickly get an extra copy

Oh yeah, my bad, I meant as in, if you have an Eidolon like plant focusing on Athletic maneuvers, you’ll have to get an athletic item for them (that you equip yourself) or the maneuvers won’t do you much good and if you want to have a bon mot/demoralize build on the summoner, you’ll need that intimidation/diplomacy item as well, in the end. Technically you could just not focus on too many skills at the same time, but summoner is very conductive for it, if it wasn’t for the item cost

for reference, Paizo constantly breaks the wealth per level rules in published APs and even organized play, so I wouldn’t sweat it too much unless this noticeably and negatively impacts your game

I’m actually wondering if Summoner would be better if it got funneled 2 characters’ worth of wealth per level, or if the people having a blast with it aren’t unknowingly showered in gold and treasure by their GM. The general idea is, you’re a mediocre (wave) caster doubled of a mediocre martial but with the full expense related to both roles. If both half aren’t under-geared for their respective role to boot, it probably adds up to a full character without too many issues, except, you’re always scrapping for gold, with no way to get your double skill item tax, the staff tax, the wand tax, the rune tax, etc… all at the same time

Damnit so close!

If what you’ve seen comes from r/pathfinder2e on Reddit, it’s likely because the place is a borderline echo chamber nowadays, and will happily swear that everything short of dumping your key stat is viable regardless of whether it actually is or not.

You’ll have a hard time finding any mention of something in the system being “not as good as the rest”, or, god forbid, the system having specific shortcomings (you might see “the game has shortcomings” but specific mentions will be absent).

I really invite you to check multiple posts and look intently for those less positive outlooks, you won’t find many and those you will find are likely to be at the bottom, on the other hand, you’ll see a ton of echoed opinions about the absolute superiority of pathfinder 2 math, game design, class balance, etc… either over other popular system or in absolute.

I don’t think the moderation team there is complicit, but it absolutely has let it go to shit over the years

TL;DR: to answer more specifically to “What is it that makes people really like summoning in general?” pf2e Redditors like everything about the system whether it’s good or not