If you cant come to grips with the scientific fact that ecological destruction has a direct connection to population then you should start a special sub for CollapseMagicalThinking.

Life requires resources these resources have flow rates, for example the amount of human appropriated calories that are possible to grow in one m² is limited by things like sunlight temperature nutrient inputs etc… This is scientifically measurable and all creatures including humans are constrained by such things. We are also constrained by waste production and the rate of waste detoxification by ecosystem services.

Of course “affluence” as measured by consumption is also part of the equation P*A=environmental impact. Humans appropriation of global bioproductivity is already pushed the other life on earth into mass extinction. Its already reduced many areas to lower bioproductivity levels. Over 40% of our current population number is dependent on advanced synthetic fertilizers that are highly dependent on fossil fuels and other depleting resources.

High population doesn’t imply killing people. It can mean voluntary birth control usage and lowering the ability of the global 1% to engage in excessive consumption rather than killing the poor that use a tiny fraction of the resources per capita.

Its strange to me that so many people in here talking about eugenics when neither eleitl nor the paper posted had anything to do with eugenics. This place is a dimwitted mob of barely literates arguing with imaginary ideological enemies. actually i probably shouldn’t use the word “arguing” since that requires something like a chain of claims-reasoning-evidence etc…

https://lemm.ee/c/collapse

less censorship

People fail to understand we are in fiscal dominance rather than monetary dominance now and interest rate increases wont throttle inflation. Interest rate increases can actually create inflation now because that money is printed and paid to bondholders who then use it in the actual economy therefore creating more money chasing the same amount of goods , therefore inflationary. this is like the 40s not the 70s.

I doubt this shit even moves the needle any more than the general neoliberal greenwash bullshit. All the parties are pro-human growth and anti-nature if it comes to asking for sacrifice to standard of living for humans

tldr the bond market is about as distorted as soviet economy, this eventually meets reality

Come on. If we don’t dig it up and burn it, it’s going to stay under the ground.

Those who think we should continue using fossil fuels despite the climate change and weather effects we’re already seeing do not understand the physics of how the world works.

our energy requirements for being alive are much higher than a population that didn’t get itself on a hockey stick shaped population chart. we are in an intensification trap. we must continue to use fossil fuels to maintain the population and standard of living, unless we are willling to sacrifice the population and standard of living and/or renewables grow so much they take up the slack.

so any talk of leaving it in the ground needs to also include talk of how we are going to allocate the misery that comes from such.

as of 2024 meaningful carbon capture is still hopium and copium

Researchers and practitioners have questioned society’s ability to reach Gt-scale CDR from novel approaches such as BECCS and DACCS, given the small role these technologies play in climate change mitigation today

Others have highlighted the potential environmental (10–12) and social [e.g., food prices (11)] impacts of CDR, particularly for BECCS due to its high land and water requirements but also for DACCS.

They have also critiqued the role that CDR plays in net-zero policy narratives, arguing that optimistic assumptions about CDR in the future may be used to delay action today and represent a moral hazard whose risks are disproportionately borne by low-income countries and future generations .

… institutional, behavioral, and social barriers …, experience with related technologies suggests that they may be substantial

punctuated stairsteps down. sure there are crashes but its never that one crash that is the crash there is always the next one. 2008 was a crash , lots of people didnt really recover but we move on. the decline can still last a life time and we never cross the proverbial “collapse” where everyone busts out their bondage outfits and dunebuggies . People still go to work every day, people still need doctors , doctors still make more than day laborers , people still own stuff and parasitize those who dont etc…

Most people in collapse forums talk about collapse but have no real metric to measure by. I would look at global population , global “real” gdp, global institution size ie… supernational instituions like European union cracking up then later nations that were put together based on nonsense balkanizing. Life expectancy global and local. etc…

Perhaps i overestimate USAs friendliness with eurozone. I kind of just worked with the assumption that keeping europe solid was in USA national interest but i dont really know at any moment what special interests have their tentacles in the deep state. I figured blowing up the pipeline was to target russia with the european energy situation damage just being “collateral damage”. I kind of have doubts usa elites were even clever enough to realize it would shift energy intense industry to usa. Hard for me to parse the malice and stupidity

Evergrande and chinese property are just shufflings of abstract information in the form of money . the real economy is biophysical.

Expect waves of stagflation of various sizes and duration to be the principal form of economic collapse experienced by the working class. It doesn’t have to come as a collapse just a slow grind across a lifetime of declining standards of living.

diminished omega 3, not 6. you got it backwards.

There are some GMO plants that like camelina that synthesize DHA/omega 3s and a soybean that produces other long chain SDA which are omega3 DHA/EPA precursors, which could be used as farmed fish feed to help get them back to natural 3:6 ratios but the govs make it hard so they keep making unhealthy fish and feeding bycatch

The human enterprise is in overshoot; we exceed the long-term carrying capacity of Earth and are degrading the biophysical basis of our own existence. Despite decades of cumulative evidence, the world community has failed dismally in efforts to address this problem. I argue that cultural evolution and global change have outpaced bio-evolution; despite millennia of evolutionary history, the human brain and associated cognitive processes are functionally obsolete to deal with the human eco-crisis. H. sapiens tends to respond to problems in simplistic, reductionist, mechanical ways. Simplistic diagnoses lead to simplistic remedies. Politically acceptable technical ‘solutions’ to global warming assume fossil fuels are the problem, require major capital investment and are promoted on the basis of profit potential, thousands of well-paying jobs and bland assurances that climate change can readily be rectified. If successful, this would merely extend overshoot. Complexity demands a systemic approach; to address overshoot requires unprecedented international cooperation in the design of coordinated policies to ensure a socially-just economic contraction, mostly in high-income countries, and significant population reductions everywhere. The ultimate goal should be a human population in the vicinity of two billion thriving more equitably in ‘steady-state’ within the biophysical means of nature

To be fair the ecofascists and the palo alto eugenics crowd are different crowds so shouldn’t conflate them as being the same.

Also there is nothing inherently immoral about eugenics unless its coerced. If you read the history of eugenics you will see many leftists and anarchists had nuanced pro-eugenics arguments that were life-affirming and non coercive .

Also i kind of think ecofascists are almost a myth. I spent the majority of my life purposely seeking out and interacting with everyone from the most extremist libertarians to anarchists to all the flavors of leftists to weird neoreactionary occultists . In my entire life ive only interacted with one person that had ecofascism as part of their identity and they are primarily an internet blogger edgelord.

the fascists fucking hate nature and see it as an abomination to be dominated and converted to money for the most part, they see ecology as the domain of homos and liberals. This is why the venn diagram of eco and fascii doesnt have much overlap

Im not really one to think every weather anomaly is worth talking about on here but my brother has been living on a ranch in texas and they had a 100 year flood that peaked at 48 feet deep. He sent me videos and it looked like a lake all around. luckily they had a really good huge limestone hill on the property , some extra cattle washed up on it still alive from somewhere far away. he said flood was from 6 hours of upstream rainfall.

whats americas incentive for attacking europes manufacturing and industry?

When oil falls off all that nat gas byproduct also falls off so it can lead to an accelerated decline curve for nat gas too. and nat gas is doing a lot of the fossil fuel work in the total energy mix. I think nat gas prices would have to be quite higher to support the fracking for them without the oil acting as the prime motivator

There are lots of counters to this which is probably why it got published in economics journal rather than anthropology or other more domain informed journal. still an interesting contrarian take.

plagues fit the role better

the nobel in economics is just a fake award of other pseudoscientists tugging each others dicks.

There are plenty of absolutely damning counterarguments to nordhaus that make it so that nobody serious takes him seriously. hes a shill plain and simple