• Hell_nah_brother
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    4 days ago

    Yes, as a main language not as only language. Again here English language did a trick ehehe sneaky little education…

    • Saapas@piefed.zip
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      4 days ago

      You’re saying it’s fine because they’re forcing it as just the main language and not the only one…?

      • Hell_nah_brother
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        4 days ago

        Can you live in your country (have a job, pay taxes, buy a house, raise kids) without using the official language of the state? In mine is not possible.

        • mindbleach@sh.itjust.works
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          3 days ago

          These communities existed before today, and seemed to be doing fine.

          The fact people can learn and use a language, without being raised to consider it their primary language, is what you think you’re arguing. It would be nice if you meant anything by it besides “nuh uh.”

        • Saapas@piefed.zip
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          3 days ago

          Definitely yeah. Are you saying you shouldn’t be able to do that or wdym

          • Hell_nah_brother
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            3 days ago

            Are you guys okay? You just say shit to air your mouth?

            Can you integrate into Germany without ever speaking German? Can you integrate in France without ever speaking French? Can you integrate in the US without ever speaking English?

            At one point you will have to learn the official language of the state you live in, you can keep yours but for material and technical purposes (think about the fkn taxes comon man!) you NEED to know at least the OFFICIAL language of the country.

            How the fuck is this controversial? This is basic shit good lord.

            • idiomaddict@lemmy.world
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              3 days ago

              There are older Germans who have been living here for generations and don’t speak standard German. Germans learn it in school now, but not every school insisted on Hochdeutsch in the post-war period, especially in more rural areas.

              Generally they all understand standard German, but not all of them can produce it. Their children can often understand and produce both their dialect and standard German, but their grandchildren have mostly lost the ability to produce the dialect.

              It’s really sad to lose the diversity of dialects, and it’s a direct result of enforcing a standardized German dialect in schools and government institutions.

              China is geographically massive in comparison to Germany and has that much more to lose.

              • Hell_nah_brother
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                3 days ago

                Thank you for a normal answer that has a point. And I would generally agree but it’s also true that you need to know at least (meaning “not only”) one language that is spoken with the rest of the country you live in if you want to improve your material life (better jobs, better places, ability to move).

                Pretending that imposing one primary common language for an incredibly vast territory while celebrating (this is what the law says) the differences among regions/people equals ethnic cleansing, is disingenuous and ridiculous at best.

                Because by the same logic, all the European countries that have an official primary language should be doing ethnic cleansing.

                Do you feel these people that speak a different German dialect are being genocided by the German government?

                These are unserious takes from unserious people who are just here to pump this shitty cnn article with a bunch of alts for the BurgerReich.

                • idiomaddict@lemmy.world
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                  3 days ago

                  Thank you for a normal answer that has a point.

                  Thank you for saying that. It’s basically impossible to discuss China normally on here with anyone. I don’t think China is inherently a greater evil than any other huge world power. They’re more reasonable and considered than most of the others imo (edit: this originally said “any of the others,” and while I do think China thinks slightly longer term than the EU, I don’t think the EU is especially unreasonable or unconsidered, so I changed it to most), but they don’t have the same goals that I would have, and I think they’re more oppressive than I would like, but I think they also get a lot more shit from the world than other countries do (for example, the USA has been operating camps where immigrant women are occasionally sterilized without their consent or knowledge since Obama- that’s genocide, but nobody cared about it until trump).

                  I haven’t encountered many other people who are somewhat neutral about China, so I seem to get alternately painted as a Sinophobe and as a shill for Xi.

                  Do you feel these people that speak a different German dialect are being genocided by the German government?

                  Not exactly. Genocide is a really serious accusation, and I don’t think it can happen without intent (same for ethnic cleansing). I do think that as a result of the actions of the German government, the German people (and the world as a whole) have lost aspects of their culture that they can’t get back.

                  There’s always going to be a trade off between cultural diversity and efficiency, and I think Germany then and China now are both focused on efficiency. I can’t even blame them, but I do think there are ways to ensure everyone can achieve competence in a common language without losing their native languages.

                  Actually, I think that the universality of written Chinese was a probably enough for general national communication, but it does leave people less able to frictionlessly move around (and of course, the implementation of a unified writing system erased other aspects of culture, but that’s a sunk cost).

                  If I were designing the system, I’d have students attend bilingual schools, so that some classes would be held in Mandarin/Standard German, and I’d have some classes held in the local dialect. That’s more work, but it’s also a really good way to celebrate the culture associated with the dialect. Nowadays in Germany, speaking with a strong dialect is strongly associated with a lack of education, but if people literally learned about and regularly discussed academic subjects in those dialects, people would form new associations.

            • Saapas@piefed.zip
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              3 days ago

              You are changing your question. First it was if you can live there without speaking the language. And that’s easy. And we’re talking about minorities in China, in some areas you’d be surrounded by a community who speak the same language as you so integration into that area isn’t a problem at all.

              I mean right wingers push for mandatory language classes (and talk about ethnic unity). This is getting eery. And this is going further in that that it is forcing it as the primary language…