Lemmings, please read the post don’t blindly downvote because you don’t like the title - this is a debate forum so if you don’t want to debate, unsubscribe or just ignore, thank you!

final edit: I guess I overlooked the sentence in the sidebar that says, “A place for theists to come and debate atheists”. I am myself atheist (using the definition in that same sidebar) so please forgive me and treat this as a debate between atheists. Thanks everyone for the great responses so far. The original post follows:

As the title says - if you believe that our scientific worldview is accurate and mostly complete, and that consciousness is entirely explained by the interaction of atoms in our bodies, then you must believe in reincarnation.

Here’s the reasoning. If you believe your consciousness now is the same consciousness that existed in your head when you woke up this morning, despite the fact that the atoms that cause your consciousness are now arranged slightly differently and interacting differently, then there’s not just one single arrangement of atoms that will cause the experience of “you” - there are many.

If you believe, as I do, that the consciousness that exists in your head now is the same consciousness that existed in your head as a child many years ago, and is the same consciousness as the one that will exist in your body when it is decades older, then there must be a whole set of different atomic arrangements which all generate the same unique conscious mind.

The universe today is actually fairly young. It’s expected that it will continue for hundreds of trillions of years. It is a huge amount of time, and if atoms have come together in the right way to produce my consciousness now, after only 13 billion years, then it’s reasonable to suppose that over the next many trillion years, the right arrangement of atoms will occur again at some future time long after this body is gone. And in fact, it’s reasonable to suppose that this very same consciousness will be produced many many times over.

I do see one other option: consciousness is recreated anew every single moment, and we only have the impression of being a single continuous consciousness thanks to memory telling us what the previous consciousnesses that lived in our bodies experienced.

So which do you believe? You will live for ever, or you actually only live for a split second?


I’m not any kind of Buddhist or anything. In fact I’m vehemently opposed to religions of all kinds. I do believe science offers the best way to look at the world. Unlike religion, science starts from the reality that we do not know anything for sure.

Science questions everything and, from a starting point of pure ignorance, has gradually, cautiously and carefully, built up a coherent worldview that delivers real results - which is so much more than any religion can say.

However there are still very big and very important questions that have not been answered, and which we do not seem any closer to answering - to name but two, why am I me and not someone else, and what will happen to me when I die.

These are extremely important questions, and the honest approach right now is to say, “I don’t know” and continue to live in ignorance.

By posing the question of this debate post, I’d like to challenge the seemingly widespread belief amongst atheists that once we die, we disappear as if we never existed. That might be a possibility, but it is far from the certainty that many atheists believe it to be.

I guess I overlooked the sentence in the sidebar that says, “A place for theists to come and debate atheists”. So please forgive me and treat this as a debate between atheists.

  • bdonvrA
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    12 days ago

    An identical arrangement of atoms as I have in my body could appear next to me. They would be identical to me but I would remain aware of only my original body and consciousness. The two bodies would then diverge on their paths as time goes on and they live different experiences since they don’t ocuppy the same space. Same with any future doppelganger. Is it really reincarnation if there is no hint/remnant of the previous?

    if atoms have come together in the right way to produce my consciousness now, after only 13 billion years, then it’s reasonable to suppose that over the next many trillion years, the right arrangement of atoms will occur again at some future time long after this body is gone. And in fact, it’s reasonable to suppose that this very same consciousness will be produced many many times over.

    I’m not sure that’s true. The possible combinations of literally OCTILLIONS of atoms that comprise your body could easily never be seen across trillions of years if you try a new combination every millisecond. And that’s operating under the completely wrong assumption that things on the scale of humans are just formed randomly like that.

    • MouldyCat@feddit.ukOP
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      12 days ago

      They would be identical to me but I would remain aware of only my original body and consciousness

      but which is which? how does your consciousness know to stay in the original body?

      The possible combinations of literally OCTILLIONS of atoms that comprise your body could easily never be seen across trillions of years if you try a new combination every millisecond

      true, and that’s why it’s important to consider all the combinations that have previously existed in our bodies starting from when our consciousness first flickered into existence, plus all the combinations that are yet to exist up to the point when that consciousness fades away. That will give you a fairly large set of different molecular arrangements which all give rise to the same single unique consciousness. It’s also unlikely that those arrangements are the only ones, given that your future arrangement will be different if you decide to eat bacon and eggs for breakfast tomorrow, or pancakes (and all the other various choices you could make).

      So we have a fairly large set of atomic combinations, and given the sheer length of time the universe is currently expected to exist, it is much more likely that they will recur one day.

      There is also the possibility that our universe is not the only one to ever exist, but simply one in an infinite series of different universes. In such a case, anything that is possible will happen an infinite number of times. (And has already happened an infinite number of times.)