The US funded border patrol since 2003? Omg, I don’t believe it. wtf is this post supposed to mean? Blame Democrats? This post is removed.
wow this post got you scratched.
ableist r-word slur. Selective history, incurious about history and self-absorbed. You’re fucking pathetic.
I blame every American that voted for that orange shit or didn’t vote at all because they think Democrats are just as bad.
To the outside world, they are both just as bad. To the domestic, the only difference is how it affects white people. As marginalized communities always have it really shit under both parties.
Everyone who doesn’t fucking care about making things better or just too self centered to give a shit about the future.
No, you liberals only give a shit about YOUR OWN FUTURE and NOBODY ELSE’S. You lot are the definition of a self-centered ego.
Everyone that gave up because fuck it. Just let it burn. This is fine. The end of humanity is coming soon enough, but the world will heal after we are gone.
Yes, let Amerika burn, that is good actually. But it won’t be the end of humanity then, it’ll be what saves it. The world will indeed heal when you lot are gone.
Where you even born then? The same agency existed before 2003. That was just a name change. After 2001, everything changed. But it was nothing like what exists now. I’d like to see how you guys are doing anything to help humanity and not further it’s destruction. I agree most/all politicians are are selfish assholes. Most of humanity probably deserves to die off. Any number of man made disasters are ready to make that happen. The USA is already dying. China will likely be next dominant power. But just saying fuck Democrats is pointless. What does “join the revolution” actually mean? Just sow more chaos?
The same agency existed before 2003. That was just a name change.
So the meme should have gone back further and said Immigration and Naturalization Service, U.S. Customs Service and assorted other government agencies? Would that be good enough for you?
After 2001, everything changed.
Yes, I know. Americans decided to allow unprecedented surveillance and militarization in exchange for maintaining their way of life.
But it was nothing like what exists now.
My mistake, I must have imagined Guantanamo.
I’d like to see how you guys are doing anything to help humanity and not further it’s destruction.
I agree most/all politicians are are selfish assholes. Most of humanity probably deserves to die off. Any number of man made disasters are ready to make that happen. The USA is already dying. China will likely be next. But just saying fuck Democrats is pointless.
America is the only so- called liberal democracy where criticism of the political establishment is treated like an existential threat to humanity. Free to use slurs but not to dream of a better world, I guess?
What does “join the revolution” actually mean? Just sow more chaos?
I’m sorry you’re having such a rough time processing the immense violence happing within your country. However, my comment was “ICE was formed in 2003”. If that statement, providing a possible reason that year was chosen in the meme, is unbottling all these feelings, I’d like to suggest that it isn’t really my comment that is the problem.
That’s a fair comment, I wasn’t specific enough in what I meant. I don’t think it’s unusual for the state to suppress dissidents. That’s what states do, after all!
I know the internet isn’t real but the only exposure I have to americans is online, and they seem to think that people criticising the democrats are russian agents. Every day americans are so eager to suppress criticism and turn on each other, in service of maintaining the status quo.
Why though? You don’t even need to look beyond the comfort zone of imperialist states to see that electoral democracy can exist in places where people are free to form new parties and coalitions when the existing are not pleasing to anyone. Take the UK for example!
I’m not suggesting more parties are going to stop america from continuing to harm the rest of the world and their people at home. I’m just baffled by the idea that anything but uncritical support of one of the two teams you get to pick from is anti democracy. I think getting over that hurdle is the first step to solidarity and class consciousness.
Oh, yeah, the US ideological state apparatus is extremely powerful.
I’m reminded of a joke:
A KGB spy and a CIA agent meet up in a bar for a friendly drink. “I have to admit, I’m always so impressed by Soviet propaganda. You really know how to get people worked up,” the CIA agent says. “Thank you,” the KGB says. “We do our best but truly, it’s nothing compared to American propaganda. Your people believe everything your state media tells them.” The CIA agent drops his drink in shock and disgust. “Thank you friend, but you must be confused… There’s no propaganda in America.”
I am no fan of the us and I live here. Ive hated politics my whole life. I totally get the hatred of America. I would leave if I could. And there are pockets of resistance here and I do what I can to support that even if it means voting democrat. I have to believe there is still a chance.
The same problems always existing before 2003 which is my point. And every year gets worse. Every country gets worse. Every day the future gets worse and all you guys do is blame someone else. Blaming everyone else, minorities/immigrants is what got is here. Doesnt solve anything.
I don’t disagree with the criticism. The only thing i dislike is the implication to that “there are no good choices” and we should just give up. That’s how the facists win. I also thought the meme was dumb. But tbh I was drunk. I am also new to this platform, so sorry if I fucked up the rules. It still amazed that anyone even read a comment from a noob and took the time to reply.
I want to start this off by saying I appreciate that you seem to be open to correction and that you respect the community and its rules. 99.9% of the time when someone, especially from another instance, suddenly appears here to defend Democrats or the false dichotomy binary system of US politics, they are trolls commenting in bad faith and don’t deserve anything less than comment removal. If you genuinely do not fall into that category, then there are plenty of people here who are more than happy to discuss any of this with you, noob-ness not being a factor at all.
That said, I think you do have some brainworms regarding electoralism that you would do well to excise. Anyone who grew up in western (especially US) “culture” is going to have some brainworms, as it’s unavoidable when you’re saturated by propaganda from birth as USians are. I just want to be clear that saying you have brainworms is not an insult to your character. What does speak to the health of a person’s character is whether or not they’re willing to recognize, examine, and rectify those brainworms.
The only thing i dislike is the implication to that “there are no good choices” and we should just give up
A few things to unpack here. First of all, no one is saying there are no good choices and definitely no one is saying “we should just give up.” You are the one who seems to have that sort of defeatist attitude (though it looks like you’re struggling to come to terms with that) when you say things like “Most of humanity probably deserves to die off,” which is an ecofascist-aligning position. And even “every year gets worse. Every country gets worse,” is a very defeatist (and incorrect) thing to say, as it totally disregards the gigantic strides that socialist countries have made towards the betterment of humankind.
More specifically on the Democrats and “no good choices” thing, we would say that Democrats are not a good choice and literally no better of a choice than a Republican because both of those parties serve the interests of the ruling class, they are both parts of the same machine whose purpose is to suppress the working class while protecting and serving capital. They have different roles to play in that machine (see the ratchet effect) so they are not identical, but expecting either of them to actually help you or be beneficial to you is folly. Unfortunately, due to those electoralist brainworms, a lot of people who otherwise would be allies in the struggle for a better world are misled into thinking that voting for Democrats is a means to improvement when they are not. They aren’t even a “lesser evil” that will help stymie the descent into fascism. They are not a lesser evil, the are part of the exact same evil machine, and they won’t stop fascism because their role is literally to impede leftward political movement as a bulwark for the right. Democrats aid fascism, they do not stand in its way.
Voting within a bourgeois system, especially at the federal level, is generally useless, yes. We can get into that if you want (such as how the tremendous political energy spent on promoting bourgois electoral candidates saps all the energy that could have been spent on actually useful organizing, as well as making people think they’ve “done their civic duty” by voting, excusing and dismissing them from doing what actually needs to be done for progress to happen), but even for those who are still unwilling to accept that fact, it doesn’t mean “there are no choices” because we still have for example PSL candidates, who aren’t running with an expectation to win, but to expose more people to socialist thought. In short, there are good choices, but voting for Democrats is not one of them. And when you defend or support Democrats, not only are you not helping, you are aiding the fascist side. When we criticize Democrats specifically it is usually because so many people have been fooled into thinking Democrats are on the left, that Democrats represent resistance to fascism.
Finally, what you said about how we are “blaming everyone else” is ridiculous. We are very clearly “blaming” the ruling class. But it’s not even about “blame” which is a very idealist (and incorrect) framing. We correctly identify capitalism as a system (and imperialism on a global scale) as being the source of these problems and that is what we are struggling against, including Democrats who are just another facet of the ruling class enforcing its will over the rest of humanity.
The comment was removed because it contained a slur. I didn’t think that means someone is a “bad person” and needs to be banished. We are all flawed individuals. I am not saying this to shame the commenter either. I feel compelled to reply because readers might assume the comment was removed based on the moderators disagreement with this person’s stance when the reason was much less subjective.
I admit I got the wrong impression from you guys initially. The vitriol is all “fuck Democrats”, but you should follow up with “go socialism” to get the message out. From the outside looking in, it looked like more of the voter suppression campaigns that I see everywhere else. I see too many young people give up on voting because they think their single vote doesn’t matter. But they need to understand democracy is about everyone voting as a whole.
It’s true I have become a but of a fatalist lately which really make me sad about the future generations. I actually shed my brainworms decades ago. I have no delusions about the US political system. It is an oligarchy. And yes money/greed is to blame. I am 100% for socialism. Most people here who are not brainwashed agree with socialist policies. I support the socialist candidates in my area. And they are running under the Democratic party. But the voter suppression is real. I live in a liberal district in the south US. The ruling party here recently divided up (gerrymandered) my district to dilute the votes. Cheating to win is now openly acceptable. It makes me sick.
Is the US perfect? Fuck no. Does the US political system suck? Absolutely. Is the Democratic party going to make it better? Probably not anytime soon. But the average Republican is 100x worse than the worst Democrat. Do you live in a perfect society? If so, please let me know. I would love to visit.
Of course this is the comment you respond to you monumental coward
China will likely be next
Lol cope. Sorry, but China is not on the verge of collapse, it actually has competent leadership and an educated population that isn’t poisoned by the insane individualist colonialist philosophy that lies at the root of the mind of people like you and the other average half-wits that make up the political base of the US.
Removed by mod
wow this post got you scratched.
ableist r-word slur. Selective history, incurious about history and self-absorbed. You’re fucking pathetic.
To the outside world, they are both just as bad. To the domestic, the only difference is how it affects white people. As marginalized communities always have it really shit under both parties.
No, you liberals only give a shit about YOUR OWN FUTURE and NOBODY ELSE’S. You lot are the definition of a self-centered ego.
Yes, let Amerika burn, that is good actually. But it won’t be the end of humanity then, it’ll be what saves it. The world will indeed heal when you lot are gone.
🥈
ICE was formed in 2003.
Where you even born then? The same agency existed before 2003. That was just a name change. After 2001, everything changed. But it was nothing like what exists now. I’d like to see how you guys are doing anything to help humanity and not further it’s destruction. I agree most/all politicians are are selfish assholes. Most of humanity probably deserves to die off. Any number of man made disasters are ready to make that happen. The USA is already dying. China will likely be next dominant power. But just saying fuck Democrats is pointless. What does “join the revolution” actually mean? Just sow more chaos?
Yes, I talked about it elsewhere in this post: https://crazypeople.online/comment/11609820
So the meme should have gone back further and said Immigration and Naturalization Service, U.S. Customs Service and assorted other government agencies? Would that be good enough for you?
Yes, I know. Americans decided to allow unprecedented surveillance and militarization in exchange for maintaining their way of life.
My mistake, I must have imagined Guantanamo.
America is the only so- called liberal democracy where criticism of the political establishment is treated like an existential threat to humanity. Free to use slurs but not to dream of a better world, I guess?
I’m sorry you’re having such a rough time processing the immense violence happing within your country. However, my comment was “ICE was formed in 2003”. If that statement, providing a possible reason that year was chosen in the meme, is unbottling all these feelings, I’d like to suggest that it isn’t really my comment that is the problem.
The UK is imprisoning nans for holding up signs saying they support Palestine Action.
That’s a fair comment, I wasn’t specific enough in what I meant. I don’t think it’s unusual for the state to suppress dissidents. That’s what states do, after all!
I know the internet isn’t real but the only exposure I have to americans is online, and they seem to think that people criticising the democrats are russian agents. Every day americans are so eager to suppress criticism and turn on each other, in service of maintaining the status quo.
Why though? You don’t even need to look beyond the comfort zone of imperialist states to see that electoral democracy can exist in places where people are free to form new parties and coalitions when the existing are not pleasing to anyone. Take the UK for example!
I’m not suggesting more parties are going to stop america from continuing to harm the rest of the world and their people at home. I’m just baffled by the idea that anything but uncritical support of one of the two teams you get to pick from is anti democracy. I think getting over that hurdle is the first step to solidarity and class consciousness.
Oh, yeah, the US ideological state apparatus is extremely powerful.
I’m reminded of a joke:
I am no fan of the us and I live here. Ive hated politics my whole life. I totally get the hatred of America. I would leave if I could. And there are pockets of resistance here and I do what I can to support that even if it means voting democrat. I have to believe there is still a chance.
I mean this with kindness: my comment is directed only to the people who display the behavior I mention.
Denmark jailed a teenage girl for commenting “yaaasss 😍” on a Facebook post sharing an article about Iran firing missiles at Israel.
The same problems always existing before 2003 which is my point. And every year gets worse. Every country gets worse. Every day the future gets worse and all you guys do is blame someone else. Blaming everyone else, minorities/immigrants is what got is here. Doesnt solve anything.
Yes, problems with borders existed before 2003. But this image is about Democrat support of ICE specifically.
What type of criticism is allowed?
I don’t disagree with the criticism. The only thing i dislike is the implication to that “there are no good choices” and we should just give up. That’s how the facists win. I also thought the meme was dumb. But tbh I was drunk. I am also new to this platform, so sorry if I fucked up the rules. It still amazed that anyone even read a comment from a noob and took the time to reply.
I want to start this off by saying I appreciate that you seem to be open to correction and that you respect the community and its rules. 99.9% of the time when someone, especially from another instance, suddenly appears here to defend Democrats or the false dichotomy binary system of US politics, they are trolls commenting in bad faith and don’t deserve anything less than comment removal. If you genuinely do not fall into that category, then there are plenty of people here who are more than happy to discuss any of this with you, noob-ness not being a factor at all.
That said, I think you do have some brainworms regarding electoralism that you would do well to excise. Anyone who grew up in western (especially US) “culture” is going to have some brainworms, as it’s unavoidable when you’re saturated by propaganda from birth as USians are. I just want to be clear that saying you have brainworms is not an insult to your character. What does speak to the health of a person’s character is whether or not they’re willing to recognize, examine, and rectify those brainworms.
A few things to unpack here. First of all, no one is saying there are no good choices and definitely no one is saying “we should just give up.” You are the one who seems to have that sort of defeatist attitude (though it looks like you’re struggling to come to terms with that) when you say things like “Most of humanity probably deserves to die off,” which is an ecofascist-aligning position. And even “every year gets worse. Every country gets worse,” is a very defeatist (and incorrect) thing to say, as it totally disregards the gigantic strides that socialist countries have made towards the betterment of humankind.
More specifically on the Democrats and “no good choices” thing, we would say that Democrats are not a good choice and literally no better of a choice than a Republican because both of those parties serve the interests of the ruling class, they are both parts of the same machine whose purpose is to suppress the working class while protecting and serving capital. They have different roles to play in that machine (see the ratchet effect) so they are not identical, but expecting either of them to actually help you or be beneficial to you is folly. Unfortunately, due to those electoralist brainworms, a lot of people who otherwise would be allies in the struggle for a better world are misled into thinking that voting for Democrats is a means to improvement when they are not. They aren’t even a “lesser evil” that will help stymie the descent into fascism. They are not a lesser evil, the are part of the exact same evil machine, and they won’t stop fascism because their role is literally to impede leftward political movement as a bulwark for the right. Democrats aid fascism, they do not stand in its way.
Voting within a bourgeois system, especially at the federal level, is generally useless, yes. We can get into that if you want (such as how the tremendous political energy spent on promoting bourgois electoral candidates saps all the energy that could have been spent on actually useful organizing, as well as making people think they’ve “done their civic duty” by voting, excusing and dismissing them from doing what actually needs to be done for progress to happen), but even for those who are still unwilling to accept that fact, it doesn’t mean “there are no choices” because we still have for example PSL candidates, who aren’t running with an expectation to win, but to expose more people to socialist thought. In short, there are good choices, but voting for Democrats is not one of them. And when you defend or support Democrats, not only are you not helping, you are aiding the fascist side. When we criticize Democrats specifically it is usually because so many people have been fooled into thinking Democrats are on the left, that Democrats represent resistance to fascism.
Finally, what you said about how we are “blaming everyone else” is ridiculous. We are very clearly “blaming” the ruling class. But it’s not even about “blame” which is a very idealist (and incorrect) framing. We correctly identify capitalism as a system (and imperialism on a global scale) as being the source of these problems and that is what we are struggling against, including Democrats who are just another facet of the ruling class enforcing its will over the rest of humanity.
The comment was removed because it contained a slur. I didn’t think that means someone is a “bad person” and needs to be banished. We are all flawed individuals. I am not saying this to shame the commenter either. I feel compelled to reply because readers might assume the comment was removed based on the moderators disagreement with this person’s stance when the reason was much less subjective.
I admit I got the wrong impression from you guys initially. The vitriol is all “fuck Democrats”, but you should follow up with “go socialism” to get the message out. From the outside looking in, it looked like more of the voter suppression campaigns that I see everywhere else. I see too many young people give up on voting because they think their single vote doesn’t matter. But they need to understand democracy is about everyone voting as a whole.
It’s true I have become a but of a fatalist lately which really make me sad about the future generations. I actually shed my brainworms decades ago. I have no delusions about the US political system. It is an oligarchy. And yes money/greed is to blame. I am 100% for socialism. Most people here who are not brainwashed agree with socialist policies. I support the socialist candidates in my area. And they are running under the Democratic party. But the voter suppression is real. I live in a liberal district in the south US. The ruling party here recently divided up (gerrymandered) my district to dilute the votes. Cheating to win is now openly acceptable. It makes me sick.
Is the US perfect? Fuck no. Does the US political system suck? Absolutely. Is the Democratic party going to make it better? Probably not anytime soon. But the average Republican is 100x worse than the worst Democrat. Do you live in a perfect society? If so, please let me know. I would love to visit.
I don’t think anyone is saying there are no good choices and to just give up.
If you can’t talk about what’s wrong, you can’t fix it.
Of course this is the comment you respond to you monumental coward
Lol cope. Sorry, but China is not on the verge of collapse, it actually has competent leadership and an educated population that isn’t poisoned by the insane individualist colonialist philosophy that lies at the root of the mind of people like you and the other average half-wits that make up the political base of the US.
I meant China will be next to be the dominant power. This was the last comment on the thread. Didn’t mean to poke you.