the only place that i know of that lets non-citizens vote in NYC, and only for local elections.
their reasoning is that, if you live in NYC, you’re paying taxes and, therefore, have the right to representation. you still have to register and show ID, using the city’s NYC ID, which is issued for free (gasp!). (more info on NYC ID)
edit: my bad-- this law was ruled unconstitutional on appeal, after a long court battle, on 2/24/2024. boo
It is important to note that the law was determined to be unconstitutional to the NY State Constitution. This hasn’t been tested if a state allowed non-citizens to vote.
It still is. It was only limited to local elections.
Besides, taxation without representation is unjust and was one of the bases for the American Revolution itself. Hard to argue against it.
“We should make things hard and unjust so immigrants are pressured to become citizens,” is a pretty terrible argument, not to mention needlessly cruel.
Besides, taxation without representation is unjust and was one of the bases for the American Revolution itself. Hard to argue against it.
In general I agree but if I fly into another country and buy something (paying sales tax) I don’t expect to be able to immediately vote in their elections. Waiting a few years to be able to vote (when the rest of us have to wait 18 years) seems reasonable. Not to mention foreign adversaries would jump at the chance to ship in thousands of loyalists and have a real influence on an election.
“We should make things hard and unjust so immigrants are pressured to become citizens,” is a pretty terrible argument, not to mention needlessly cruel.
Hard? If having a vote suddenly makes things easy I’ve been doing voting wrong my whole life. And the naturalization process is cruel, but let’s fix that. If you’re productive and have a clean record you shouldn’t have to wait more than a year.
In general I agree but if I fly into another country and buy something (paying sales tax) I don’t expect to be able to immediately vote in their elections. Waiting a few years to be able to vote (when the rest of us have to wait 18 years) seems reasonable.
Most of the immigrants in question have been in NYC for years if not most of their lives, far exceeding your own, personal requirements. But NYC set the limit to 6 months, the same limit set for everyone to be considered an NYC resident. All they had to do was be able to prove NYC residency (not a low bar, btw), which proves that they pay taxes.
Hard? If having a vote suddenly makes things easy I’ve been doing voting wrong my whole life. And the naturalization process is cruel, but let’s fix that. If you’re productive and have a clean record you shouldn’t have to wait more than a year.
First of all, if you want to fix the cruel naturalization process, then stop throwing up needless roadblocks to acting in a democracy like citizenship requirements. If one can prove residency and that one is a taxpayer (thus, as is just, deserving of representation, depending on the level of taxation: municipal, state, federal, etc.), then one should get a vote in how said tax collected is dispersed and relevant administrative decisions made, representatives chosen, etc. This was the crux of the NYC decision to let local immigrants vote in local elections.
Second, NO, it shouldn’t take more than a year to process someone’s application of naturalization— in fact, it shouldn’t take more than a month or two. But it takes, even with the best attorney and all expedited “fees”, well over FIVE YEARS. If you’re lucky. If you’re not lucky, it’s never.
I’ve been through this process with friends and loved ones, for better and for worse, over the past 16 or so years. You, clearly, have not. Or you’re discussing this in bad faith— I hope it’s the former, but, buddy, you’re just wrong when you present this as some simple thing that’s “not so bad.” There’s a reason it’s one of the most cantankerous issues of the last 3-4 generations.
the only place that i know of that lets non-citizens vote in NYC, and only for local elections.
their reasoning is that, if you live in NYC, you’re paying taxes and, therefore, have the right to representation. you still have to register and show ID, using the city’s NYC ID, which is issued for free (gasp!). (more info on NYC ID)
edit: my bad-- this law was ruled unconstitutional on appeal, after a long court battle, on 2/24/2024. boo
It is important to note that the law was determined to be unconstitutional to the NY State Constitution. This hasn’t been tested if a state allowed non-citizens to vote.
That IS important!
Eh, I get it in theory but voting should be an incentive to naturalization.
It still is. It was only limited to local elections.
Besides, taxation without representation is unjust and was one of the bases for the American Revolution itself. Hard to argue against it.
“We should make things hard and unjust so immigrants are pressured to become citizens,” is a pretty terrible argument, not to mention needlessly cruel.
In general I agree but if I fly into another country and buy something (paying sales tax) I don’t expect to be able to immediately vote in their elections. Waiting a few years to be able to vote (when the rest of us have to wait 18 years) seems reasonable. Not to mention foreign adversaries would jump at the chance to ship in thousands of loyalists and have a real influence on an election.
Hard? If having a vote suddenly makes things easy I’ve been doing voting wrong my whole life. And the naturalization process is cruel, but let’s fix that. If you’re productive and have a clean record you shouldn’t have to wait more than a year.
Most of the immigrants in question have been in NYC for years if not most of their lives, far exceeding your own, personal requirements. But NYC set the limit to 6 months, the same limit set for everyone to be considered an NYC resident. All they had to do was be able to prove NYC residency (not a low bar, btw), which proves that they pay taxes.
First of all, if you want to fix the cruel naturalization process, then stop throwing up needless roadblocks to acting in a democracy like citizenship requirements. If one can prove residency and that one is a taxpayer (thus, as is just, deserving of representation, depending on the level of taxation: municipal, state, federal, etc.), then one should get a vote in how said tax collected is dispersed and relevant administrative decisions made, representatives chosen, etc. This was the crux of the NYC decision to let local immigrants vote in local elections.
Second, NO, it shouldn’t take more than a year to process someone’s application of naturalization— in fact, it shouldn’t take more than a month or two. But it takes, even with the best attorney and all expedited “fees”, well over FIVE YEARS. If you’re lucky. If you’re not lucky, it’s never.
I’ve been through this process with friends and loved ones, for better and for worse, over the past 16 or so years. You, clearly, have not. Or you’re discussing this in bad faith— I hope it’s the former, but, buddy, you’re just wrong when you present this as some simple thing that’s “not so bad.” There’s a reason it’s one of the most cantankerous issues of the last 3-4 generations.
The Alt-Right Playbook - Didoing