The Supreme Court on Thursday appeared skeptical of a ruling by a federal appeals court that rejected former President Donald Trump’s claim that he has absolute immunity from criminal charges based on his official acts as president. During more than two-and-a-half hours of oral argument, some of the
Dang…that’s a really good analysis of the arguments.
Justice Brett Kavanaugh appeared sympathetic to the former president’s argument that criminal statutes do not apply to the president unless they say so specifically. He told Dreeben that it’s a “serious constitutional question whether a criminal statute can apply to the president’s criminal acts.”
Kavanaugh – who served as a deputy to Ken Starr during his investigation of then-President Bill Clinton – cited the Supreme Court’s 1988 decision in Morrison v. Olson, upholding the constitutionality of the independent counsel statute, as “one of the Court’s biggest mistakes” because it “hampered” presidential administrations. When former presidents are subjected to prosecution, Kavanaugh said, “history tells us it’s not going to stop.”
I don’t have anything better to do (yay for being off work today), so I want to dig into this because I don’t really see the problem. Shouldn’t presidential administrations being hampered in criminal activity?
Morrison v. Olson basically upheld the constitutionality of the Independent Counsel Act, which was used to appoint Alexia Morrison to investigate and prosecute any federal violations Theodore Olson, then Assistant Attorney General, had committed during an investigation of the EPA. Upholding it meant that Congress could appoint an independent counsel “to investigate and prosecute crimes by high-ranking members of the executive branch.”[1]. In other words, the judicial branch, via the Attorney General, could appoint someone with executive power to investigate and prosecute executive members.
In short, Kavanaugh thinks this ruling violates the separation of powers and, as a result, has reigned in the range of actions presidential administrations may have taken in the past. To be fair to him, the Independent Counsel act was used to prosecute government officials in the Watergate Scandal, the Iran-Contra affairs, and the Whitewater scandal[2]. So, it’s been used, and Kavanaugh’s concern is legitimate.
And that concern is relevant to Trump’s immunity cases because, if they say that Trump isn’t immune from his allegedly criminal acts, then it further constrains presidential administrations. The reductio ab absurdum argument is that of course presidents should be held accountable for their criminal actions. Duh! The more intellectually honest consideration is that, while president’s should indeed be held accountable for their criminal actions, allowing Trump to be held accountable would encourage investigating and prosecuting the criminal actions of future presidents as yet another tool for political dominance.
Fundamentally, I think Kavanaugh’s concern is less about Trump’s accountability specifically than the functioning of American democracy generally. Having worked through this myself, I better understand where he’s coming from, but…Trump needs to face consequences for what he did as president. IMO, if American democracy can’t function smoothly if it’s highest political offices can’t engage in criminal behavior, then American democracy shouldn’t function smoothly. Better a dysfunctional democracy with accountability than it’s illusion without.
(Also, the footnotes below are so cool! Definitely using them more often!)
and the answer won’t come from this decision. This will be a narrow decision I suspect. The court will keep it very focused for the reasons you listed above
Well it is rare to hear such a legal expert weight that he can read the minds of the courts. Based on the prior cases, they have been all over the place. The court isn’t evenly divided on each case.
Dang…that’s a really good analysis of the arguments.
I don’t have anything better to do (yay for being off work today), so I want to dig into this because I don’t really see the problem. Shouldn’t presidential administrations being hampered in criminal activity?
Morrison v. Olson basically upheld the constitutionality of the Independent Counsel Act, which was used to appoint Alexia Morrison to investigate and prosecute any federal violations Theodore Olson, then Assistant Attorney General, had committed during an investigation of the EPA. Upholding it meant that Congress could appoint an independent counsel “to investigate and prosecute crimes by high-ranking members of the executive branch.”[1]. In other words, the judicial branch, via the Attorney General, could appoint someone with executive power to investigate and prosecute executive members.
In short, Kavanaugh thinks this ruling violates the separation of powers and, as a result, has reigned in the range of actions presidential administrations may have taken in the past. To be fair to him, the Independent Counsel act was used to prosecute government officials in the Watergate Scandal, the Iran-Contra affairs, and the Whitewater scandal[2]. So, it’s been used, and Kavanaugh’s concern is legitimate.
And that concern is relevant to Trump’s immunity cases because, if they say that Trump isn’t immune from his allegedly criminal acts, then it further constrains presidential administrations. The reductio ab absurdum argument is that of course presidents should be held accountable for their criminal actions. Duh! The more intellectually honest consideration is that, while president’s should indeed be held accountable for their criminal actions, allowing Trump to be held accountable would encourage investigating and prosecuting the criminal actions of future presidents as yet another tool for political dominance.
Fundamentally, I think Kavanaugh’s concern is less about Trump’s accountability specifically than the functioning of American democracy generally. Having worked through this myself, I better understand where he’s coming from, but…Trump needs to face consequences for what he did as president. IMO, if American democracy can’t function smoothly if it’s highest political offices can’t engage in criminal behavior, then American democracy shouldn’t function smoothly. Better a dysfunctional democracy with accountability than it’s illusion without.
(Also, the footnotes below are so cool! Definitely using them more often!)
TeachingAmericanHistory.org ↩︎
The Efficacy of the Independent Counsel Law: Holding Presidents to Account from Nixon to Trump to Account from Nixon to Trump ↩︎
This is going to be a very important ruling that many people are going to turn partisan.
I believe it was Kavanaugh who asked about Obama and drones. That was a really good question.
I don’t like the term immunity but I get it. We can’t go after the president for everything they do as it will turn into a clusterfuck really fast.
This is one of those days I am glad I am not a member of SCOTUS or someone who has to deal with trying to figure this mess out.
ETA: To be clear this isn’t as much about Trump as it is about the role of President. This could be a huge and impacting decision.
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and the answer won’t come from this decision. This will be a narrow decision I suspect. The court will keep it very focused for the reasons you listed above
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You won’t know until they vote and give their written opinion. The devil is in the details.
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Well it is rare to hear such a legal expert weight that he can read the minds of the courts. Based on the prior cases, they have been all over the place. The court isn’t evenly divided on each case.
deleted by creator