Don’t vote for president if you don’t want to, I get it. It’s stupid we only have 2 options, especially when both are in mental decline and show little to no ambition to reduce needless deaths and suffering. Both want to move this country towards fascism, and both are creating a worse world they won’t have to live in for much longer.
To those who see this and think I’m saying both sides are the same, I’m not. I’ll probably vote for Biden in November because he’s driving towards the cliff at a slower speed and at least does the bare minimum for marginalized in this country. Also Trump said some pretty racist shit last night. Still, to those who don’t want to support either candidate for the reasons above, that’s valid.
The point I’m getting to is VOTE DOWN BALLOT. Vote for your congress person and your senator, both federal and state. Vote for your city council and your sheriff and whatever bills there are and everything else. That’s where the fight still matters. That’s where you can make the most difference. The social justice you want to see won’t get near the white house until it’s represented in the lower offices. It doesn’t matter who the president is if you get enough decent people in a position to stand in their way.
unnecessary addendum
That’s the important bit but here’s a some sort messages to a few blocks of voters. To Republicans and right wingers, you should reevaluate your positions because what you’re supporting is stupid and selfish and often inhumane. To Democrats, if you get enough control over the house and senate it doesn’t really matter if Trump is president, also recognize and correct the failures of your party please. To the leftists, please run for office and bring those ideas into the mainstream discussion, try to reach out to your community and to share rather than driving them away with self righteousness. Also, don’t be bigoted, that goes for everyone.
Edit: I even said I was voting for Biden and the libs are still mad I think he sucks. Again, the point of this post is to get people to pay attention to the other things on their ballot. The president isn’t as important or as powerful as we act like it is. And if you want better options, you have to support better options in races where they actually have a chance.
Both want to move this country toward fascism
Explain
Massive support for war and policing. Crack down on protesters. Etc.
So Palestine. We’re doing the Palestine argument again. What if I told you that support for Israel has been so baked into our foreign policy since its inception that no president alone can go against it without incurring the wrath of a neoliberal horde? Is Palestine suddenly the one issue that’s worth committing political suicide over, just to make way for a worse, actual fascist autocrat who would be bff with Netanyahu while he erases the Palestinian people? I think Biden is shitty on Palestine, but I also think he’s in a terrible spot and he’s doing what he thinks he can against decades of foreign policy. The other guy would be shitposting on Truth Social about sending bombs to Palestinian children for Christmas.
That’s included but not the only thing I’m talking about. Also the real point I’m trying to make is if we’re able to elect better people to congress and make those voices unignoreable, then it doesn’t matter who the president is.
it doesn’t matter who the president is
I promise you that in this election, it does.
If we keep focusing solely on the president we’ll never get better options.
100% agree
I think your copy of Umberto Eco is a preproduction copy or something
It’s actually not accurate that Biden has instigated any crackdown on protestors, as far as I know; he’s spoken at plenty of events with protestors without having them beaten or anything. There are police agencies in the US (quite a lot of them) that don’t give a shit what a Democratic president does or doesn’t want them to do.
Trump, on the other hand by way of example of what it would mean, tried to get the National Guard to shoot protestors with live ammunition, and actually was able to mobilize some federal police to snatch protestors off the street and drive away with them without ever even identifying what agency they were with or where the people were going (it turned out they were CBP).
But that’s besides the point - even if what you were saying was entirely true, it wouldn’t mean Biden’s trying to resurrect fascism for real in its real unfettered form. If fascism meant war, and police abuses, there would be quite a lot of fascist countries in the world today and we’d need to invent some new word for the very specific and very dangerous thing which is actual fascism.
You’re so right, because we are not currently living under a full extreme fascist state, that totally means the US isn’t moving in that direction. /s
Yeah, when Biden invested two trillion dollars in climate change and unions, and increased corporate taxes to spend on working people, Mussolini
(I took out a dick joke that followed after that because the mods are sometimes sensitive in my experience)
(You’re gonna have to use your imagination for what Mussolini might have done in his grave to indicate how excited he got about Biden’s final realization of his lifelong dream of staffing the NLRB with labor people and pausing weapons shipments to a war criminal ally because they were committing human rights violations)
We still have snow sometimes that means there’s no global warming.
If we had two trillion snowstorms one recent winter, when every other winter since like 1980 had been more or less 0 except for some healthcare that fell once from the sky during winter 2010, I actually think that would represent a factor that someone could bring up to say bro at least in the last couple of years it seems like it’s been getting colder
And then on top of that if someone else said naw man it’s all global warming anyway so ergo I don’t mind if we bring back the guy who owns his own personal methane factory staffed by like 30% of the country at this point and has promised to turn it on and produce nothing but methane all the time and also kill anyone with an electric car, because it’s all pretty much the same, I think that would represent a factor that would make me question that person’s motivations in saying that
That was pretty weird. You’re also misrepresenting my argument. As far as my motivations for posting, they are 1, get people to vote even if it’s not for president and 2, steer more conversation towards local politicians.
You’re wrong, but it’s not your fault.
First Past The Post is a terrible system. We have it in the UK and we’ve had governments formed by a party that got less than 40% of the votes (as in, people ago actually voted, not including eligible voters who did not cast a ballot).
By any objective measure, “60% of people did not want these clowns in charge” is not really what I’d describe as “democratic”.
So that needs to change. But until it does, that’s the game. And unlike Wargames, you can’t win by not playing.
Not voting for Biden (however bad he is, he is objectively the lesser of two evils), whether not voting or voting third party, is giving Trump’s votes more weight. Yes, that’s shit, no, that’s not fair. But that’s the way the system is right here right now. Deal with it. Vote Biden or you are implicitly saying you’re OK with Trump.
I think the amazing thing is how much improvement you get from going from “choose one” to “choose all you like.” (AKA approval voting). The ultimate goal is proportional representation, but approval is such an easy first step.
This doesn’t acknowledge the core of my argument. This doesn’t even contradict anything I’ve said.
You know what? That’s fair. You’re actually mostly right.
I disagree that the position of president isn’t as important as people think - as you you found out during the Trump presidency, a president can potentially pick several Supreme Court justices, and given some recent rulings, it may already be too late to fix that arm of government. Plus as the head of state, they are one of the biggest symbols of national identity.
And as such, telling people they don’t necessarily need to worry about voting for them is dangerous, and I think it undermines your argument that there are other roles to vote for on the same ballot. If low voter turnout is a problem, and they don’t want to vote for arguably the important role, why would they bother going out and queuing at all?
a president can potentially pick several Supreme Court justices
Only if they have support from the senate.
Plus as the head of state, they are one of the biggest symbols of national identity.
Maybe they shouldn’t be.
If low voter turnout is a problem, and they don’t want to vote for arguably the important role, why would they bother going out and queuing at all?
I’m arguing it’s not the most important role and trying to get people to go vote even if they skip the president part of their ballot.
the libs are still mad I think he sucks
I’ll only speak for myself - my disagreement was nothing about sucks; it was with you saying he’s moving us towards fascism and creating a worse world.
If you had said, sure he took big action on climate change and strengthened unions and raised corporate taxes and increased working class wages but he also supports Israel which is fuckin genocidally appalling and even that early stuff we need like 10 times more of that to actually come to something like the scale of what’s required, so how do we vote downballot to get there, oh btw I just think he sucks in general also and he’s old, I actually don’t think I would have expressed any disagreement with the sucks part and just would have weighed in on your down ballot question.
Vote for your congress person and your senator, both federal and state. Vote for your city council and your sheriff and whatever bills there are and everything else. That’s where the fight still matters.
I checked they all suck ass
Then run for office.
Also with how far away we are from elections, I doubt you’ve actually checked what options you have in the more local races.
Agreed. At the end of the day, it’s your vote and it’s your right to vote how you choose.
Democracy is only good for the winners. The threat to democracy is democracy. Case in point, democrats don’t want MAGA to vote and vice versa. Short of actual riots and coups every election seasons, Americans have not faced the ugly side of democracy. Look at Kenya. Look at Bolivia. Look at Argentina.
Here is why Trump is the lesser of the two evils:
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Donald Trump is an outsider with non-conforming policies with the establishment. This is why the establishment hates Trump. If Trump is reelected, he is very likely going to have work with the same people that has been in government for many years and seemingly never leave, but take up other positions in the government.
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Joe Biden is a warmonger. Voted for every war, he has a peace plan for Israel and Palestine and has no peace plan for Ukraine. Any peace plan from Russia is automatically rejected. This makes no sense, especially when you consider that ethnic cleansing can only happen with the support of the US. Joe Biden royally messed up the security situation in the world, where enemies or rivals are coalescing together to form a block that is not US led. His foreign policy literally makes no sense. He has no winning strategy in Ukraine, and yet his handlers constantly talk about a possible victory. This is pure political nonsense. The funny part is the Western media makes a big deal about an attack on an oil rig in Russia as if that is key to winning the war. The Ukraine war is a destabilizing event but the worse thing about it, it is a poorly run war with no real objective. This is no Vietnam for Russia.
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Trump has a peace plan for Ukraine. Biden has none.
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Joe Biden must think he is genius for draining the strategic oil supplies to lower prices for voters when he just looks inconsistent. He wants a carbon free future, but apparently climate change is not the ultimate threat to mankind he claims it is, and the Russians are less of a threat than climate change.
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Joe Biden, despite being a longtime democrat with long experience, he is undermining the image and standing of the United States by supporting Israel. Hamas is not an existential threat to Israel and Israel won’t defeat Hamas, which is why ethnic cleansing is the preferred method. Israel serves no benefit to the US. It is funny to watch the regime dancing around the situation, claiming Israel came out with a peace plan, and it is only Hamas that is holding back the peace process. Israel is a pariah state that US wishes Russia to be.
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American people see the unhinged foreign policy. They are tired of America’s wars. Joe Biden and his posse must realize the global NATO dream is not possible and be real about it. US foreign is like an automated machine; ram against the opposing forces without compromise.
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US democracy doesn’t really work because a democracy can be hijacked by a monotone culture and establishment. This is not necessarily bad if you have the right kind, but certainly it isn’t democracy. The common thing that voters oppose and leads to instability is establishment politics that does not represent the public. Look at what the Europeans have to endure with NATO and the EU. They have no sovereignty. Why do you think Brexit happened? EU is lead into a US foreign policy rabbit hole, not of their own volition.
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Joe Biden should be feeling the real effects of entanglement alliances as well as European allies. The Biden regime is trying to manage Israeli foreign policy de-escalation whenever possible with Iran and Hezbollah. This civilian government in Israel biting off more than it can handle alone, or the US-Israel alliance emboldens the Likud Party to be more belligerent than normal.
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Joe Biden’s ideology is different from Trump’s. The problem with Joe Biden is his lack of priority. He thinks the US is this great superpower that has unlimited capacities. He is delusional. Trump has better priorities; he wants to suppress the rise of Beijing and deals with Russia much more appropriately. Joe Biden has no strategy, no exit from Ukraine, and is an absolute circus show of Ukraine joining the EU and NATO which is not even qualified by their own statutes. Ukraine does not need to join NATO. Anybody who argues otherwise overlook the consequential events. It is stupid to argue that Ukraine needed to join NATO when doing so is the reason that wrecking their country.
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Biden regime has declined the soft power of the US. The little diplomacy that exists is being replaced by sanctions and threats to security.
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The pandemic is what ruined Trump’s re-election. There is no pandemic now, and people are reminded why they voted for Trump in the first place, to avoid a person like Joe Biden. If Joe Biden had good leadership, his cognition wouldn’t be questioned.
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Whatever supposed virtues Joe Biden has been irrelevant because he is incompetent. Joe Biden and his buddies in Washington are in a lot of trouble. Absolutely unhinged foreign policy. Trump does not have a perfect foreign policy by any means. For example, the excess antagonization of Iran is not helpful, and can make things worse; Iran can make a nuke. The antagonization is pure politics. I would say Trump’s foreign policy is less unhinged but still. A trade war with China is a dead end, much like Biden’s dead end in Ukraine. I agree with China needs to be contained, but you don’t need a trade war. There are other ways to try to contain China, which the Biden administration is doing.
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To fundamentally change the US government takes much more than just voting for the president. Every politician, including your Congress people, need to be examined with a magnifying lens.
I disagree with this. I like democracy, though I do think we need to change the rules.
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He’s not
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He’s an outsider like Vatican city is outside Italy. But yes, that’s why Hillary lost because she was even more establishment.
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Trump is a carpet bomber who doesn’t need the excuse of war to attack people he dislikes.
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Trump’s peace plan is to give Putin whatever he wants.
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That’s not how that works.
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Trump wouldn’t be better on this.
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Trump is more unhinged.
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Yes our democracy is broken. I know how I want to repair it, but what is your alternative to democracy?
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I don’t think I get what you’re saying with this one.
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There’s a lot wrong with this one that I don’t currently have the patience to get into.
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That describes Trump.
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Mostly true, but doesn’t really say anything about the argument.
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This argument is pretty bad. The general statements say one thing while the specifics say the opposite. Doesn’t seem to support your conclusion.
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This is exactly right and the intended focus of my post.
What does Putin want? A neutral Ukraine. Is that unreasonable to you? What sounds reasonable, getting your country wrecked because you want to join NATO, or be neutral and maintaining your borders? What does the US want in Ukraine? Peace or NATO membership? Why is it important for Ukraine to join NATO, and why do US state officials and the EU continue to insist THEY WILL JOIN NATO? Critical thinking skills are needed. NATO membership is more important than neutrality? Why? NATO membership is more important than preserving your own country. A reasonable person would think that is stupid. Indeed, everything about this conflict could have easily been avoided, but from the beginning, it was full-on stupid. Such stupidity can only be endorsed because of political agenda, and not rational thinking. Do you even know what Putin wants with any evidence, or is this conflict based on what you think Putin wants? If that is so, that is just stupid. Context is important here. NATO is a political alliance, and the Ukraine conflict is a political agenda. Whoever controls Ukraine does not affect the US. Ukraine is insignificant to the US. Such unhinged policy can only be explained by a political agenda; that is, the perpetual expansion of NATO, which Russia threw cold water on. The Russians had to gall oppose NATO expansion and defy US dominance. This makes logical sense that it is a political agenda that is wanted to be rammed through since the US is not interested in any compromise that Ukraine will not join NATO. Simple as that. This is why Donald Trump is better for Ukraine, who has a peace plan. Trump has no interest in expanding NATO and sees NATO as a parasite leeching off of the US, which he is technically correct. Joe Biden is unhinged here, not Donald Trump.
Furthermore, Joe Biden’s ideology is different from Trump’s. Trump has a nationalistic ideology focused at home. Joe Biden has an expansionist ideology in controlling and interfering in the politics of other countries to expand US influence (which is what Ukraine is about). Who is the real fascist here? A warmonger that wants to spread liberalism around the world or a nationalist that focuses more on the home front and deals with peer competitor like China? Fundamental differences. Donald Trump’s foreign policy has better priority than Joe Biden’s policy. The Russians are not going to lose in Ukraine and as Zelensky himself has said recently “time is running out”. Whatever dumb excuses needed to support Ukraine doesn’t matter in the end, because Ukraine is going to lose anyway.
That reasoning doesn’t explain the annexation of Crimea. Invading a neutral sovereign nation is a horrendous way to oppose a political alliance. With or without NATO, Putin would want to take control of Ukraine. Personally, I think that’s a bad thing and would like to stop it from happening. Also this invasion actually got Finland and Sweden to join NATO, so much for that cold water.
To address your edit with one of my own, Trump’s nationalistic focus on domestic policy is curtailing freedoms and vocally promoting hate. Not really what I’m looking for.
Context is important here. Russians annexed Crimea because of a coup in Kyiv by Ukrainian Nationalist, the so-called Neo-Nazis, or politely called Extreme Ukrainian Nationalist. The reason why Russia annexed Crimea is for security concerns, which is why Ukrainian neutrality was important. The annexation was a geostrategic move to prevent future NATO control. Neutrality is important here. Besides, even if that is the case, why does the US need to meddle in Ukraine when it is inconsequential to US national security. We all know Americans were inside Ukraine prior to the 2014 coup. Victoria Nuland was there with her colleagues, meddling in Ukrainian politics. Why? Because there is a political agenda at work here.
It is important to point out causation here. Was neutrality better for Ukraine, or was going for NATO membership a disaster? The latter is indisputably true. Neutrality was better. To those to who say that Putin was going to invade anyway, based on what? We have people who can read other people’s minds? This is absurd logic to assume you know what another person is thinking and base international relations on that. That easily leads to miscalculation.
Here are the fact here since the US became deeply involved in Ukraine: 1. Ukraine is less democratic, with less political parties, with no legal president. 2. Ukraine is far less peaceful, with men forced to fight in a futile war that could have been prevented with diplomacy. 3. Ukraine is losing on the battlefield. Those are the facts. Whose miscalculation are those?
He thinks Ukraine is supposed to be part of Russia
Another article that may be more reputable
And without speaking to the “facts” you’ve stated, I would like to apply some context
Here are the fact here since
the US became deeply involved inRussia began its invasion of UkraineYou are not making any sense. Why do you care to whom Crimea belongs to? It means nothing to US national security. The Russians, however, see it as an existential threat for NATO to control Crimea. The Russians have been telling NATO for 20 years that NATO expansion is not acceptable and was contingent on the breakup of the USSR. It seems clear who you think are the good guys.
I think it’s bad when a nation is trying to take land away from another nation. You sound like a Russian troll though. I’m probably not going to continue this discussion.
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Do the downvoters think the office of president is the most or only thing worth voting for on your ballot?
The down voters probably disagree with your trivialization of what fascism is by suggesting that both candidates are pushing toward it, your encouragement to not vote for the president when one of them actually is pushing fascism, and your claim that the president isn’t that important, when we’ve seen (and continue to see) the devastating results of the judges and other administrators they appoint.
Obviously the other offices on the ballot are important, and you’re not wrong about local representation, but flippant equivocation of a doddering neo-liberal with an actual fascist is a danger to put democracy.
Thanks for ignoring the second paragraph.
I didn’t ignore this part
Both want to move this country towards fascism
You ever hear of the ratchet effect? It only works that way when the 2 controlling parties have similar goals.
That’s not even remotely true
Well the democrats seem to be either too weak or unwilling to release the lock on said ratchet, so take your pick. Either way we should still be trying to elect better people to the offices where we can actually make a difference.
Right, but you realize that equating inability/unwillingness to move left of neo-liberalism, with actively desiring to move towards fascism, is extremely ignorant if not downright disingenuous, and a reasonable explanation for the down votes. No one disagrees that we should vote down ticket and in local elections, they disagree with your other claims.
