Do you agree that Brexit has been “a pointless waste of time, money and effort”?
Oh come on, that’s not an original take, that’s literally what everyone who voted for remain kept trying to tell the Brexiteers. It was so obvious that this was never going to work, it so clearly hadn’t been thought through.
The way politics in this country is handled is like constantly trying to stop a toddler from setting themselves on fire or drinking bleach. Supposedly level-headed career politicians make the most obviously stupid of decisions. It’s maddening.
To be fair they just do what stupid people tell them to do.
From another post:
Sell shovels to miners, and coffins to the widows.
“I Hate Elvis”
Simon Jenkins, professional opinion haver
“Brexit has been great for my journalism career, don’t you agree?”
It wasn’t pointless at all. It accomplished exactly what the conservatiives wanted to do.
It broke the U.K. That’s what they wanted. That’s what they got. Exactly as planned.
Conservatives aren’t trying to fix things and make them better. They’re trying to destroy everything in order to gain full control. it’s easier to do, when everything is broken as opposed as to when it’s FUBAR. Then they drain the money into their personal accounts from whatever grift they can pull off.
Why does everyone think their plan failed? It didn’t. This is what they wanted. The UK globally lost 10 years fighting over this Brexit garbage, and it still has work to do to fix it. I remember when the pound was 2:1 over the dollar. Not anymore, and not until the conservatives blow up the U.S. market in the same way.
I think you’re giving more credit to the conservatives than most of them are actually worthy of. I’m sure there was some political machinations somewhere by someone but a lot of the conservatives genuinely thought that this would be an improvement.
You’re not telling me that the likes of Bad Enoch are in on some kind of grand conspiracy.
It wasn’t pointless at all. It accomplished exactly what the conservatiives wanted to do.
Don’t forget the Russians’ too. They put big money and effort into dividing and weaking the eu. And it worked and it is still working.
Yup let’s not forget that the Tory government buried the Russian Interference Report and when it was finally released it revealed that the inquiry was specifically asked not to investigate russian involvement with Brexit and the UK GE.
I don’t think it was pointless at all. The point was to weaken Europe and sow chaos. It’s the Foundations of Geopolitics playbook and the hybrid warfare campaign has been such a success over the last decade that it will probably influence the next century knowing our luck.
Butbutbut the tankies told me that Foundations of Geopolitics was written by a crackpot and it didn’t hold any weight with Putin and the Russian government??
Bingo. And people like Nigel Farage are still laughing all the way to the bank to this day.
Very true.
I hated Brexit when it happened and I hate it still. I knew exactly what would happen to the UK the moment it was brought to my attention, and couldn’t believe it even managed to pass.
I forgot how easy it is to rile up people for a cause they’re ignorant on by simply lying to their faces. It’s much easier to shout along with some fucking twat screaming about how “immigrants are bad!” than it is to sit down and actually read anything established economists are publishing about the matter.
It was a complete waste of time the moment the notion was even brought up, and the regret was inevitable.
I forgot how easy it is to rile up people for a cause they’re ignorant on by simply lying to their faces.
Not just lying, remember these are military psychological operations tactics being applied to the general populace. These messages, channels, and everything about it were gamed specifically to attack those who were most vulnerable to them.
Aaron Banks (now currently a Reform politican, thankfully he didn’t win a seat) and Cambridge Analytica wrangled the vote with illegal campaign spending and manipulation through targeted Facebook advertising (you can tell whatever lies you like if you only tell them to people who don’t question) in 2016. Then they assisted Trump in his 2016 election. Then Cambridge Analytica was disbanded, but the same people were in the background in the 2019 UK election, and again in the 2024 US election. It’s all the same backers, employing the same tactics both sides of the pond - like how they accused Jeremy Corbyn of antisemitism, then shortly afterwards tried to pull the same stunt on Bernie Sanders.
“Fed up of experts”
Sums the whole thing up.
Not we question experts. Or even why are they experts. All valid questions that can be resolved one way or another.
But instead a call to glory in their own ignorance.
The biggest flaw of living in society is just how easily people are swayed to go against their own self interest.
They only do that because people are lying to them. If you limit the lies told to them by people with special interests that don’t include reality, you get people that don’t go against their own self interests.
Someone has to talk another person into hammering their big toe repeatedly. People figure it out on their own pretty quick. Unless they are constantly being bombarded by lies.
Nothing new, the ancient Greeks and the Romans had their fill of demagogues.
It wasn’t a waste of time to a small handful of ultra wealthy people that got a touch wealthier
You should stop complaining and get back to work
Yes. What a fucking stupid waste it was for the UK.
No. I don’t think it was a pointless waste of time, money and effort. I am aware this goes against the majority in here but I hope we can talk about it in good faith and not fall back into entrenched views as has often happened in the past.
First let me start by saying… If a relationship isn’t working you DON’T have to stay. It doesn’t matter what pressure you’re put under or if they try to shame you or turn everyone against you. If it isn’t working, you leave.
I voted for Brexit because I was shocked at how corrupt, wasteful and unaccountable the EU had become. Instead of becoming the sum of the best qualities each member brought to the table, it appeared to be a shocking mess of all our worst features. I wanted them to realise that a member state could leave and I hoped that in doing so they would look at themselves and improve things. Also, I was fully aware that the UK was far from some kind of utopia and I did wonder if having to go it alone for a while might not also make us look at our issues as well.
So for me, it has been a useful process. Brexit has prompted the EU to reflect on its operations in many ways, leading to many reforms and adaptations. The EU has taken steps towards greater financial coordination, joint initiatives, and strengthened environmental policies.
I will say that the absence of the UK’s influence has also led to concerns about increased bureaucracy and regulatory complexity but overall, Brexit has prompted the EU to adapt, evolve and become more efficient. Now, so long as there’s a mutually respectful way to do it, I’m all for getting cosy with the EU again so long as we don’t go back to the old ways.
(Edit: Right-o this has been fun. I’m actually pleasantly surprised that not all of you resorted to all the usual nasty behaviours that keep so many of us Brexiteers quiet in places like this. Regardless, I feel like I’ve answered the central question of this thread “Do you agree that Brexit has been a pointless waste of time, money and effort?” so won’t be expanding any further. Here’s to a better future with a wiser EU and a more sensible UK. Toodlepip!)
First let me start by saying… If a relationship isn’t working you DON’T have to stay. It doesn’t matter what pressure you’re put under or if they try to shame you or turn everyone against you. If it isn’t working, you leave.
Absolutely spot on. If things aren’t working with say, your wife then you should absolutely take advice from someone who wants to fuck her. Especially when they tell you to divorce her, burn down the houses on the street before you leave so that your kids can never be near her either and if you could just shoot yourself in both feet on the way out that’d be great.
Much better to do that than admit there’s a few minor annoyances like in all relationships and work on fixing them instead.
Although I thought Brexit was a bad idea, I appreciate you sharing your opinion and adding some more diversity to conversation on Lemmy, something that is sorely lacking.
My pleasure 🙂
And now I can only be in the EU 90/180 days. I cannot live inside the EU. UK bought a Russian lie in big letters in the side of a bus and uneducated people bought it out of fear.
Apes stronger together!
If your relationship with the EU wasn’t working for you, by all means leave, just don’t drag everyone else with you who was perfectly happy with it. The youth of today now has no freedom of movement and less opportunity for work. Goods leaving and entering the UK from the EU are now much more expensive and many UK businesses either closed or moved out.
Stupid, stupid, stupid!
You got fooled by a russian influence operation. Accept that the information behind your vote was simply not factually true and move on.
I wish you’d fucked off somewhere else instead of voting for Brexit
In this thread
but I hope we can talk about it in good faith and not fall back into entrenched views as has often happened in the past.
Also in this thread
I wish you’d fucked off somewhere else instead of voting for Brexit
😢
Can I ask what specifically you think was corrupt/wasteful? As for unaccountability, we were able to vote for new members of the European parliament.
Thank you for not just swearing at me. It’s appreciated :) So in terms of specific examples I can think of a few. The “Traveling Circus” was one where the EU was spending between 100 to 200 million Euros at an environmental cost of an extra 19k tonnes of CO2 annually moving their seat between Brussels and Strasbourg for the purely political reason of France insisting the Strasbourg remain a seat of power. Then there was also the Common Agricultural Policy that became infamous for subsidising farmland that wasn’t even producing food. French and Italian farmers were accused of manipulating records and misusing funds. There were concerns over auditing and transparency too. Misuse or misallocation of regional development funds, corruption scandals in southern and eastern members states and just generally a lack of accountability in how EU money was distributed and monitored. There’s lots more detail we could get into but I think those are some fairly representative examples.
There’s plenty of corruption in the UK. Are you going to advocate to break the UK union as well?
Just to point out. The new UK replacement to the farming subsidiary. Also now works specifically to prevent land from growing food.
ATM for very good reasons.
But getting shit wrong is not curruption.
And the shit you saw with the EU. Is really just evidence on how open they are. You talk about the moving of seats. But know exactly why is happened. While the curruption in the UK government is real and often well hidden.
This was my whole issue with brexiters. The EU was blamed as an block independent of the nations. For shit our own leaders were constantly pushing through the EU.
Almost everything brexiters decried the EU for was shit the UK supported and often created. Yet the call was to give more power to the much less democratic processes in the UK.
Then to watch a minority that supported hard brexit. Instantly use our own less democratic first past the post bullshit. To override the waste majority and all the promises made by the Brexit crowd during the referendum.
But getting shit wrong is not curruption.
Sure, but corruption is corruption:
Italy: 12 arrests and over €9.6 million seized in investigation into agricultural funding fraud €440k frozen in Italy over suspect scam by fake farmers Italy smashes mafia racket defrauding EU agriculture funds 94 arrested in Italy over EU agriculture funding fraud
And the shit you saw with the EU. Is really just evidence on how open they are.
Well, their own reports are pretty damning: The Commission’s response to fraud in the Common Agricultural Policy There’s a “Conclusions and recommendations” section that’s quite illuminating.
Note how that is nations. And folks have been arrested.
So your evidence boils down to you blame criminals on the folks making the laws.
It’s logically like saying if we get rid of murder. We don’t have murderers.
Boris johnson broke the law during COVID. He also broke parliamentary procedure and the law. When he closed parliament and lied to the queen. To try and force through a Brexit deal he lack both parliamentary support for and the national mandate.
Non of that means the UK is corrupt. It means a subset Brexit supporters are.
Closing parliament because some MPs break the laws parliament creates. Is just removing the laws. Not solving curruption.
You are proposing the same solution to the EU. And if Italy did the same. They would be giving the power to the very people that broke those laws. Much as brexiters did giving power to the billionaires that funded the campaign.
Well, their own reports are pretty damning: The Commission’s response to fraud in the Common Agricultural Policy There’s a “Conclusions and recommendations” section that’s quite illuminating.
Taken separately. Because a few mins thought about recent UK history shows how fucked up giving the UK GOV More power to solve this is.
The UK GOV is currently attacking UK disabled benefits. Dispute multiple of their own reports stating it is against both UK law and ECHR laws.
Refusing to release Thier own investigation into the cause of multiple disabled suisides from victims of the gives changes to disability benefits,
If lack of response to recommendations is reason to leave the EU. Honestly you need to buy a boat renounce your citizenship of any nation. Because national governments you wish to give more power to are far far worse.
Guess why billionaires funded Brexit?
I agree that moving the parliament between two different places seems dumb. If it’s cheaper to remain in one place then they should do that.
As for corruption and misuse of funds, maybe that does happen. Maybe the solution though is to elect better politicians to run the EU, rather than leave the EU.
I’ve thought in the past that maybe the EU should have a directly elected president, in addition to EU citizens voting for European parliament members. This might allow for more democratic accountability of the EU. Someone might run for the presidency on a platform of stamping out misuse of EU funds.
What would an EU presidents authority be? The point is that currently all EU laws voted on in the European Parliament and are ratified by member states (that’s a legislative problem of its own when not all member states are leaning the same political direction, as Hungary demonstrates), while the EU executive is just that: executing member states decision.
Making the travelling circus an issue is akin to BJ’s 350mil bus. It’s a large number, but in a 400-450mil bloc, look at the context too. Did UK save it’s contribution to said circus by leaving?
And yes, bigger administration, bigger corruption (when people are caught). The world today, sadly, doesn’t favour the small and valiant.
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