As it turns out it doesn’t actually cost that much on regular transit, there’s an AIRPORT SURCHARGE because it’s an “airport train”.
No wonder Americans don’t use public transit, even when the system exists it’s ridiculously difficult and expensive to use.
No wonder Americans don’t use public transit, even when the system exists it’s ridiculously difficult and expensive to use.
Here is my daily commute to work:
The Public Transit option is literally greyed out, and Google goes “lmao get a fucking car, peasant.”If I were going to minimize my car usage and strictly use public transit, it would be a ~20 minute bike ride (in the opposite direction of where I work) to the nearest bus station, to get to a public transit service that doesn’t even cover where I work. Then I’d take a bus to a train station, and ride it south through two cities. Then I’d make a transfer to a northern line, and ride it back north through those same two cities (and a third additional city) in order to get near another rail line. Then it would be another ~20 minute bike ride to transfer from one rail system to another, because the public transit in the southern cities doesn’t service the city where I work. Once I’m transferred to the service that covers where I work, it’s another ~20 minute rail ride, followed by a ~10 minute bike ride after getting off the train.
All in all, it would be about 2.5 hours of public transit riding, (and about an hour of riding my bike in +100°F/38°C weather), just to avoid driving 10 minutes. It would also require maintaining two separate transit passes, because the southern and northern transit systems don’t work with one another. Yeah, it’s no wonder I take my car to work.
How many minutes would it be to cycle to work?
It’s written on their gmaps screenshot: 53 mins.
One of the reasons I don’t want to live anywhere else in the US is NYC had public transit that mostly works. Even if this weekend I had to do a Q to the N to the 7 to back to the N to get to queens. I played a whole game of Lords of Waterdeep on my phone and read some of my book.
I couldn’t handle living in NYC long term, but I did stay, mostly in Brooklyn, for four months. The subway is amazing. I will never drive in that city again if I can avoid it.
FYI, airport surcharges are very common. Across the bay at Oakland has an airport surcharge. Sydney has them too, which I was happy about because Melbourne doesn’t have a train (AU $25 for a bus ticket, which was sold out) nor did Hobart. I recall AREX in Incheon also having a significant fare jump for the airport stops.
For argument purposes, BART is $0.18/mile (19th Oakland <> Berryessa). That’s still pretty high for regional public transit, which is mostly due to BART’s high farebox recovery. That high recovery is now a problem with the whole pandemic and subsequent slow return of ridership.
The current toll to cross the bay bridge by car from Oakland to sf is $8, and like someone mentioned it’s only $4.25 from Oakland to sf without the airport charge, so you are still saving by using bart, just not as much as you probably should.
A bus ticket for me to get to work is $3.50 and it’s about 1h40m. It takes roughly 35-45 minutes to drive. Idk if that’s good or not but I consider myself lucky that I don’t need to transfer buses
Here in Kansas City our transit was free for the past four years.
The downer is that, since we subsidized the public transit here in the city, the various suburbs opted to stop funding the routes that went into their various towns and cities, so now fares are going to be re-introduced.
At least the streetcar is going to remain free here, for now, and likely through 2026 due to the World Cup.
When you have free public transport it ceases to be strictly public transport, and becomes half homeless shelter. No one wants to ride around with people who are all too often drug riddled, mentally ill, and just all around awful to be in an enclosed space with. I have sympathy for and want to help that demographic, but turning public transport into extremely expensive homeless day rooms ain’t it.
Oh, I know.
That’s partly why I carry a stun-gun everywhere now.
Olathe and OP are two big reasons we can’t have anything nice here. The streetcar is staying on the Missouri side only (at least for now) so I’m hopeful it’ll stay free.
You’re not wrong. Those two cities love their cars and their shitty chain stores.
I hear she’s running for governor of California! That would be amazing. Fuck Newsom.
I’m not a huge fan of Porter. But between her and Kamala fucking Harris, whose big takeaway from the 2024 election seems to be “we didn’t run far enough to the right…”
I’ll admit I don’t know much about her outside of those videos of her grilling CEOs when she was part of the Progressive Caucus. If she’s as pro average citizen as she seems, she’s better than most. What don’t you like about her?
Good grief no…Porter is extremely car-brained. Her first run for office was based entirely on opposing the gas tax. She then went on to support some dumb freeway projects:
That’s some light criticism considering the alternative is flirting with fascists. Newsom had Steve Bannon on the first episode of his podcast.
Newsom is term limited, he ain’t coming back. That’s also the reason he’s turning right IMO, gearing up for a presidential run and thinks hariss’ biggest mistake wasn’t going on right wing podcasts.
You see, we will become the opposition party by moving to the right of the republicans (fox will still call us communists)
Ohhhh I didn’t know that. It certainly explains why he’s taking this turn.
Newsom isn’t running for Governor (he is termed out).
Ohhhh. I didn’t know he couldn’t run again. That certainly explains his recent turn. I really like Katie Porter overall though, and wish her luck. I love watching those clips of her grilling CEOs. She seems like a no nonsense type of person. A little car brained is something we can work with.
Toronto’s UP express checking in. $12.35 from down town to the airport. Sub way in the city is cheap and affordable but that dam airport thing is in its own world.
https://www.upexpress.com/en/about-up/things-are-looking-up
Next topic is toll roads. 407. Full there and back trip during main business hours. 274km = $173.50
It used to be more. Then someone pointed out it was more expensive than a cab from downtown to the airport.
Same in Edinburgh. The buses and trams have a capped fee per day but it doesn’t count if you’re coming from the airport for some reason…
It’s still probably significantly cheaper than Uber/Lyft.
Yeah, payed $30 to get from the airport to downtown sf a couple days ago, so probably closer to $50 to get all the way to oakland.
Imagine working minimum wage in SF and commuting in by BART + BUS / MUNI Lightrail / CALTRAIN / FERRY. Gotta work at least 2 hours just to cover the costs of your commute every day.
Wait… Employers don’t cover travel cost to and from work in America…?
Lmao.
No they don’t
Where do employers cover the cost of sommuting?
Pretty rarely, far as I know. I’ve seen some that cover public transit costs at least. It’s more common for them to only reimburse costs for travel during work hours or for business related trips.
Where do they cover your commuting costs? I’ve never heard of that.
In Brazil, it’s pretty common for the employer to pay your transit fare to/from work. Often you can receive the same value directly instead if you choose to use another form of transportation.
It’s common in multiple European countries.
but also not common in multiple european countries
Here in Paris, half of our transportation fee (carte Navigo, 87€ per month) is paid by the employer.
Shit bruh, even here in the fucked up USA, plenty of places (in cities, anyway) subsidize commutes. My employer pays for half of my public transport costs.
Nope, very rarely do you see them cover it at all. That’s why we hate our 1+ hour drive commutes.
Wtf? It’s normal in the Netherlands…
Public transport will be the whole second class price. By car it is up to 23 cents per kilometer.
Gosh that would be nice. Unfortunately we are stuck on simpler issues like “do kids deserve to eat at school”, so it’ll probably be a while before we get paid commute time.
Many do: I believe there is a tax incentive for them. I’ve only had it while working downtown, and in a white collar job. So not where you’d usually drive to work and not for hourly pay.
Given that there are very few required benefits, it can be fairly regressive. You don’t get help with transit unless you’re an aid enough. You don’t get better health coverage unless you’re paid enough.
Not in Canada either
Not required. SF does have an ordinance to cover some costs depending on the number of employees. But its not some nationwide law.
If you’re a fancy tech bro in SF all your costs are covered, health/dental/vision/life insurance, commuting stipend or govt subsidized account you get to put pre-tax money in and the company might match, matching contributions for your retirement 401K. The techbro class doesn’t care about the cost of BART, many of them take an UBER for 3-4x the BART faire and not bat and eye at the bill (or use the company UBER account for free). If you’re just some random minimum wage worker, you’d be lucky to live within an hour or two commute of SF and afford housing.
Surprisingly it is a national law, but it’s in the tax code as an optional benefit so it’s usually the better part paying jobs that get it, weirdly enough. Scroll to “commuter benefit)
I was a techbro in sf. I worked from home most days, but when I went to the office, I used Bart and my bicycle. It was great. I hate cars.
And, yes, I got the State to refund me for my monthly Bart pass
They do. You have to apply for it, and there’s a ceiling per month.
In case anyone is wondering, a one way trip from Oakland International Airport to the Civic Center station in San Francisco (the stop next to City Hall and the city’s largest open air fent market) is exactly $12.65.
The trip from Oakland to Civic Center is “just” $5.20, but like OP said, there’s a fuckass stupid airport surcharge for the last half mile or so.
Isn’t the idea of such a surcharge to encourage an alternate transit mode?
Apparently they believe they don’t have enough taxis clogging the entrance? Every driver trying to reach my local airport should thank me for taking the airport shuttle.
I don’t know if I used the right term by saying “surcharge”. They built an extraordinarily expensive trolley line from BART to the airport about ten years back and are charging high fees to cover expenses.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oakland_Airport_Connector
The San Francisco Airport, on the other hand, has an actual surcharge - the main BART line goes direct to SFO but they charge like $5 extra. But SFO also has the same surcharge on taxis and rideshares :/
They built an extraordinarily expensive trolley line from BART to the airport about ten years back and are charging high fees to cover expenses.
‘Extraordinarily expensive’ doesn’t begin to describe the boondoggle that is the OAK airport connector. Local bus service and basic BART maintenance got eviscerated to pay for the $500 million construction cost (BART lost a Federal civil rights lawsuit over this). Prior to the connector, BART ran a dedicated shuttle bus every ten minutes to the airport. That bus was actually faster than the connector and made a small profit despite the tiny $2 fare.
But look on the bright side, I bet some politically connected contractors in Oakland made a whole lot of money off building it. That’s called investing in the local economy 😆
Why do Americans think everything has to profit?
Not only must everything profit, it must profit MORE than it did previously. If you make $10 million selling widgets last year, and make $10 million again this year, well that’s a failing business and you should be fired.
If you predict that your business will be up 5% this quarter, and it’s only up 3%, that’s considered a disaster, and the stock price will drop, and that CEO is still in trouble. Repeat every quarter.
Because that’s the foundation and definition of capitalism. The market will provide (as long as there’s profit to be made).
Not saying it’s right though.
That’s not the definition or foundation of capitalism, it’s the definition of a market economy.
The foundation of capitalism is a system where investors can pool small amounts of money together on big projects, to share risk and reward. Historically to fund trading ships on their way to the indies.
So it destructures ownership, which has a million ripple effects on the organization and economy.
You’re describing corporatism.
Not at all, corporatism is a system where interest groups have a high amount of power : guilds, syndicates, unions, etc…
Capitalism literally refers to pooling capital together from multiple sources to allow shared risk taking and allow for the creation of companies that can get bigger by having more than one owner.
This eventually leads the way for pension funds and multinational corporations whose sole purpose is to extract maximum value for pensioners and billionaires.
Capitalism is an economic system based on the private ownership of the means of production and their use for the purpose of obtaining profit. This socioeconomic system has developed historically through several stages and is defined by a number of basic constituent elements: private property, profit motive, capital accumulation, competitive markets, commodification, wage labor, and an emphasis on innovation and economic growth.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism
In the context of “Why do Americans think everything has to profit?”, then the point is that the train is considered only for the profit it can make, and not for the environmental etc benefits. This is a result of the market economy as you rightly state (and private ownership of transportation).
i wondered, who is this person who is so out of touch that she thinks that is a reasonable price, and… she is a former member of congress from orange county who is currently campaigning to be governor of california 🤡
The alternative is higher taxes and everyone scoffs at that so…
Meanwhile here in Germany I can use any bus, tram, U-Bahn, or train (excluding high speed) anywhere in the country for 58€/month
In SF its a hundred dollars a month, but you can only go to 4 stations in the city, so you end up paying regular fare on top of that all the time, and usless for commuters.
The busses frequently dont exist even though google and the signs say they should be arriving, so youre frequently an hour or more late because you had to get an uber because the bus never came.
If youre going to a connecting train or flight you need to leave hours early to account for delays.
NYC is much more reasonable
It cost me about £60 for one return rail ticket last week 😭 that’s not including the tube fare to get to the station.
Yep, train tickets are ridiculous here. It kills me on the inside whenever I have to go to London.
The DeutschlandTicket is the best thing! I love it. I want that with their Steuernummer, baby’s get a DeutschlandTicket. Everybody needs a DeutschlandTicket.
I’ve been wondering why this hasn’t become a thing yet. Probably lobbying from all the Verkehrsverbünde.
No, they really want to keep it as cheap as possible. It’s the Bundesregierung that rather subsidises Diesel privileges and Pendlerpauschalen.
I want that in the Netherlands as well. Much smaller country, so less value for your money. But now you pay even more (€66) for a return ticket from the east border to the west border (Winterswijk - Scheveningen).
But if you don’t have the D-ticket, good luck figuring out how the local ticketing machine works haha
Easy, just buy the ticket in DB Navigator
