• QuoVadisHomines@sh.itjust.works
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      7
      arrow-down
      33
      ·
      1 day ago

      Firebombs and firearms are lethal weapons. There has always been self defense claims available in those situations regardless of their previous statements. If you state “I will shoot anyone who shoots at me” you don’t lose your ability to claim self defense.

      Police violence is a massive problem in America but the actual statement aligns with literally every single American’s right to self defense in those specific situations.

      Im not apologizing for fascism and your claim is obviously incorrect.

      • Initiateofthevoid@lemmy.dbzer0.com
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        13
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        edit-2
        21 hours ago

        If you state “I will shoot anyone who shoots at me” you don’t lose your ability to claim self defense.

        They didn’t say that, though.

        Nobody is entitled to kill, even in self defense. If you can avoid killing, and choose not to, that is not self defense.

        You are - only - entitled to defend yourself. If you kill an assailant who is an immediate threat to your life because you had no other choice, you have not commited murder. If you subdue the assailant, and then kill them, you have committed murder.

        “If you point a gun at us, we will shoot you”

        • Violent and inflammatory rhetoric, but technically a legal thing to do

        “If you point a gun at us, we will kill you”

        • Absolutely not legal.
      • TrickDacy@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        24
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        1 day ago

        Your example does not read the same as this post, which sounds much closer to a threat. Yes, you are defending fascist rhetoric because police officers with power to kill protesters are not like other citizens. This is a disgusting apologia.

        • QuoVadisHomines@sh.itjust.works
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          3
          arrow-down
          24
          ·
          1 day ago

          Read the last part of the quotes. The sheriff literally states that if you throw a brick, throw a firebomb or point a gun at you then they will kill you.

          Im not sure if thrown bricks can kill so I left it out but setting people on fire and guns obviously can and almost certainly meet the rules by which the police can shoot at you (as well as others in CA but Im less certain of that).

          Again this isn’t apologia. You either have not read the quotes or you aren’t thinking that you would have the same rights to self defense in those situations.

          • TrickDacy@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            14
            ·
            1 day ago

            It is specific, he’s statng something he will look for as an excuse to murder.

            Also he is a police officer, not just some dude, so your comparison was bullshit to begin with.

      • andybytes@programming.dev
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        3
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        edit-2
        1 day ago

        It is the optics really… It is just a opportunity to intimidate and we know these pigglets have got caught doing shady shit already. They don’t keep us safe. This is a violent dog and pony show for the micro penis burger king. The cops esuculate the situation every single time…have you ever been to a protest? Go touch some grass and stop licking boots. Rationalizing the unreasonable is like fucking for virginity. What are you 90 years old…so out of touch. This oinker is rogue and unprofessional if there was ever such a thing attributed to such a lowly creature. You are either a agent or a idiot.

        • QuoVadisHomines@sh.itjust.works
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          2
          arrow-down
          5
          ·
          1 day ago

          I have been protesting for various causes for decades.

          Engaging with police using lethal force is not going to endear anyone to the anti-government cause that desperately needs more people involved.

          • Cataphract@lemmy.ml
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            3
            ·
            22 hours ago

            Your stances are admirable and I understand your sentiment but they are relics of a past you were privileged to live in for those decades (others didn’t share that experience and have been going through this without national attention). Your reality has now shifted and I hope that you’ll be able to come to terms with those changes and not regress into authoritarian sympathies like your relatives thinking “if only they could do it peacefully”.

            Enough people have pointed out the flaw in the “self-defense” scenarios you’re imagining, I don’t believe you will come around to those without heavy education/exposure on past & current events involving police interaction and constitutional rights (there are a lot of good resources and public “auditors” online you should seek out). I will just point out the slippery slope that exists with the Sheriffs statements, “What is a brick?” - at what point does a brick become a rock/pebble or vice versa? “What is a firebomb?” - if any incendiary device is considered lethal, do firecrackers or sparklers count since it ignites?

            An officer in full tactical/riot gear getting hit with a brick isn’t lethal, yet a “non-lethal” firearm can kill from a shot in the face or beanbag to the chest in close range. Teargas can cause a fatal reaction if not treated in time. The “law-enforcement” in this instance have decided due-process (once again) isn’t necessary and will pass judgement on your actions while punishing you with state-sponsored violence and/or death.

            The lines have already been drawn, “People that want to protest will be met with big force… this is people that hate our country. They will be met with heavy force.” -Trump

            People have already decided on their stance, the various and numerous polls show basically the same support that Trump was elected with. Their goal is to silence the 30-50% that heavily oppose and demonize them in the eye of public opinion. It’s an effective campaign. Trump supporters who still follow want the chaos and clap-down of rights to “protect them” from their perceived threats. The neutral parties just want to be left alone in their comfort and don’t want to be imposed upon (these are the same neutral parties like in Nazi Germany) and will take any excuse to condemn “violent protestors” whether it’s factual or actually representative of the movement as a whole. There will be no “reconciliation” or changing of people’s minds till the fascists come directly for them and effect negative outcomes in their lives (just like they condemn peaceful protests because they’re in a street).