While not it’s not mentioned in this article, he actually said he took mushrooms around 48 hrs before getting onto the plane, which would mean his trip was definitely over. He said he thought he was dreaming, which would probably be better attributed to the fact he hadn’t slept in around 40hrs. I suspect this is a case of “the mushies did it!” being reported over questions of "how was someone in that bad of mental shape was in the cockpit of a plane? " being asked.
Wtf is wrong with society that will point to the drugs as the culprit but not the lack of sleep?
Studies have proven time and time again that prolonged lack of sleep is the most dangerous thing for a human.
My somewhat cynical view is that the airlines are trying to aim for damage control as much as possible, and are tying to throw red herirngs to divert from failings on the airlines part. In this case, shrooms. If the airlines get looked at, I suspect the whole fact that he was probably that sleep deprived and it wasn’t seen as not normal could lead to actual action against airlines.
100% this
They’re trying to shift the blame entirely to the pilot (who was primarily at fault) rather than their policies that allowed a pilot to fly on no sleep for 40 hours
Nah, he wasn’t actually flying. He was however on route to fly, which was worrying.
Either way is a problem tbh
I think everyone is just glad he didn’t get behind the controls of a plane
Didn’t the shroom thing came out of police interviews?
Crew rest is a huge deal in aviation too, something tells me rules were broken and they’re trying to avoid lack of sleep coming up as a culprit.
I wouldn’t even think they broke an HOS rule. There are so many loop holes in HOS that fuck sleep up I wouldn’t even be surprised.
Wtf is wrong with society that will point to the drugs as the culprit but not the lack of sleep?
Predetermined prejudices.
100%. Not to mention you don’t lose your mind on shrooms, and the trip is over in a few hours. Even if you were to lose contact with reality on shrooms, you wouldn’t have the capability to carry out anything. This feel like a weird deflect authored by someone who knows nothing about mushrooms.
Exactly. If you’re taking enough shrooms to “lose your mind” (aka ego death), then you’re not making it off the floor of your living room, let alone getting through security, getting onto an airplane, and acting normal enough to be let into the cockpit. You’re not even going to be aware that you have a body.
And if you haven’t taken enough for that, then you’re still never going to honestly believe you’re in a dream. That’s not how psychedelics work.
That’s good info.
I’d love to see the source for the 48 hours because this bullshit is prime propaganda fuel without that context.
48 hours is too long to blame on an acid trip usually (from my experience) let alone a mushroom trip. Maybe doses and potency were different but I’ve done up to 4 tabs of acid and 1/4 oz of shrooms (different trips) both with some bud smoked, and never had much effect after I slept. From acid sleeping took much longer but not over 40 hours, I wasn’t at a rave doing amphetamines or anything. Not those nights anyways.
I will say people are different and I was well down the road of experimentation by the time I did those strongest trips.
Oh forgot to add if they didn’t sleep that would really fuck someone up. I used to party for days and I made day 3 my limit for good reason, so 48 hours is start of day 3.
Don’t blame this on mushrooms. You get what you go in with.
And this dude hadn’t slept in 40 hours. Who the hell take mushrooms for the first time with severe sleep deprivation while in the cockpit of a commercial airliner!? This guy was unstable to begin with. Hopefully this doesn’t set back the public and regulatory perception of psilocybin and all of the therapeutic benefits it has.
From what I understand he had taken the mushrooms 40 hours prior, for his first time ever, and that’s why he’s been awake all that time. However he was also enroute to pilot a flight, which probably wouldn’t have worked out.
I call BS. Mushrooms don’t keep you up and… call me naive but… FLYING A FUCKING AIRPLANE shouldn’t come as a surprise to you. Why not take a sick day?
It can be tough to sleep mid-trip, but 10-12 hours or more later? You have other issues/substances if you can’t sleep.
Sure, staying up 2 days and then trying to kill 85 people on an airplane is not a normal reaction.
He hadn’t slept in 40 hours, but he took the shrooms 48 hours prior, so he had slept since the shrooms at least for a bit.
Considering he was apparently on a psychotic break, not sure how reliable his self-reporting is.
Then maybe he never took shrooms or took them an hour beforehand, too
But blame the drugs! 🤗
Supposedly, he took the mushies around 48hrs before, so they were out of his system. So it was probably just extreme sleep deprevation. Which begs the question, it that just considered normal on airlines?
It absolutely is NOT normal. They have very strict fatigue tracking and rules. This guy shouldn’t have been anywhere near a cockpit. I’m not sure if the rules extend to non-flight crew but I’m sure the FAA will be considering that now.
Narrator: It did.
It should hopefully not have any effect on regulatory perceptions since legal psychiatric use should involve a medication with a certain dose that’s the lowest amount that will help instead of just eating a bunch of mushrooms but we do live in the dumbest timeline. I felt bad for this guy thinking it was a mental breakdown and he needed help but this was a series of really bad decisions.
I suspect he’s blaming the mushrooms because he doesn’t want to admit whatever other drugs he’s been taking.
If he hadn’t slept for 40 hours, it might be that he took meth.
I found a better article on Reuters that says he took the mushrooms about 48 hours before. Would they even still have an effect at that point? I’ve never taken shrooms.
I’ve grown mushrooms myself and eaten a ton. He is sober within ten hours max, but in reality the high wears off in about five to six hour range and sane people only want to sleep at that point. At 24 hours you are experiencing no mushroom effects at all, let alone 40-48 hours
Nah, shrooms only last around 5-7hrs. In the worst case scenario, assume 8hrs so he was most assuredly not tripping. Probably sleep deprivation.
Not at all. It’s like max 6 hours.
Absolutely not.
I’ve done mushrooms countless times and mushrooms do not do this. Don’t you even dare try saying it was because of mushrooms. Anyone who has actually done them before will call your bullcrap.
Sure it’s possible he’s making a bullshit excuse.
But dude you have no idea what was going on in his trip. He could have eaten a 5g chocolate bar and started freaking out trying to make it stop, thinking “I need to get out NOW” and being on autopilot (himself, not the plane) since he’s flown so many times, turned the engines off. I’m sure the FAA audio will collaborate his freaking out.
You apparently haven’t had a bad trip on a megadose. Don’t go all “weed has zero bad side effects, man” about mushrooms just because you like them. This isn’t a hit piece on shrooms. It’s a piece against dosing before you fly a plane full of people which I’m totally good with.
He wasn’t flying the plane.
He was off-duty and tried to open an emergency exit.
Before that, he was in the cockpit (yes, off-duty) and lunged for the controls. The pilot had to correct it.
It’s a short article, everyone should read it before commenting.
Yeah the article either intentionally or accidently failed to mention that he took them two days prior to this incident and there’s no way he could still have been under the influence as there are diminishing returns when taking mushrooms (you tyoically need to wait a few days/a week between sessions or they don’t have much effect. The dude obviously snapped from staying awake for 40+ hours straight while also being distressed from the death of his friend.
I find it hard to believe he would have been able to get to the airport, get a flight, and get through airport security if he had simply been ‘tripping balls’ like the article implies.
Thank goodness it was drugs because now we don’t have to talk about the state of healthcare in this country
Also glad it wasn’t guns, so conservatives don’t have to pretend for five minutes that they give a shit about the state of (mental) health care in this country.
It was sleep deprivation. He took the shrooms over 48 hours previously, he may have had some sleep after the shrooms, but then stayed awake for 40 hours, and was on his way to fly another shift.
I would argue that sleep deprivation falls under a health issue
I love mushrooms, and not once have I ever thought about trying to harm anyone during a trip, let alone commit mass murder.
Might as well chock this up to “Reefer Madness”Yeah this is absolute bullshit.
Let’s set aside, for a moment, that this dude took the shrooms something like 48 hours prior. 100% this guy was not under the influence of psilocybin while on that plane.
But all of that aside, this just isn’t how shrooms work. I know it can affect people in different ways, but I’ve taken heroic shroom doses before. Never, at any point, are you unaware that you’re tripping, or think you’re “dreaming” like this guy claimed, unless you’re literally experiencing ego death. In which case, you’re not even making it off the floor of your living room, let alone onto an airplane (with the company you work for), and into a cockpit.
You’re not going through security, getting on a flight, acting normal enough to get into the cockpit, and then being lucid enough to make a deliberate move like he did. You’re not even going to be aware that you have a fucking body.
And if you’re not tripping hard enough for that, then you’re not tripping hard enough to earnestly believe you’re dreaming. Because that’s not how psychedelics work.
I have seen a couple of people take doses of 5 or 6 grams, and they are completely in a trance for hours. Just stuck in one spot and dead to the outside world. Then about 6 or 8 hours later they are back to their normal self. So, yea something is off about this excuse.
Exactly. If you’re taking that much, you’re basically in another dimension while your husk of a body (that, by this point, you’re completely unaware even exists) is essentially incapacitated for a few hours.
And if you don’t take that much, you 100% know that you’re tripping the entire time.
Why can’t it just be a rare side effect of psychedelics?
I had a friend who freaked out on acid. They found him naked in someone’s yard. After trying to break shit at a friend’s house, he freaked out and ran away.
Why can’t it just be that 1/10k people lose it after psychedelics?
Because there was a multiple day gap between him taking them and him getting on this plane.
I’ve personally had depression and anxiety issues after tripping.
I believe that someone could have trouble telling between dream and reality. I’ve been close. Isn’t fun.
Maybe it’s mental illness.
ITT: I do mushrooms and I don’t go crazy so therefore it’s impossible, and also I don’t understand human psychology at all.
ITT: people who actually have experience with psychedelics arguing against people who’ve only experienced psychedelics by seeing them portrayed in movies.
I have experience selling psychedelics, and some of the stories I’ve heard are pretty shocking.
You need to shout so people hear it. There is a reason they are called mind-altering and always start the conversation with that at the front.
Yes indeed.
Always the same comments whenever mood- and perception-altering substances are discussed.
“What you said is wrong because I don’t react that way!” or “I don’t know how drugs work but I watch a lot of TV!”
edit: Oh how could I forget, also: “Weed isn’t addictive! I’ve been smoking 9g a day for 20 years and I’m still not addicted! I can quit any time!”
Oh great way to fuck it up for everyone else.
In case anyone is unclear this is not how mushrooms work. Even on an insanely high dose you are not going to hallucinate concocted scenarios that aren’t really happening. It makes colors brighter, sounds more clear, and and occasionally makes straight lines seem squiggly or faces seem pixelated. That’s it.
One time I read about a case where the guy thought his neighbor’s house was on fire and broke a window with a fire extinguisher. That makes more sense, maybe he saw an orange light and the mushrooms made it look like it was flickering.
Sir, I have seen my entire living room melt before my eyes, and the size of objects was so distorted I thought I had shrunk below my furniture. I heard voices all night from the outside thinking someone had found me. I also wandered outside and fell in love with the grass and the midnight dew but thought I was in a different world. I’ve also completely lost my vision due to visions and globs/blobs of color and realized it can completely remove you from reality and provide a solid ego death. I was riding rainbows and did not recognize a single object around me.
I don’t think you are giving them enough credit, although I am also skeptical depending on the dosage.
How old were you? I understand younger people have more vivid hallucinations. Thinking back, did you know where you were and what you were actually doing? I’ve had 12 grams, basically a triple dose, out of self loathing, and at no time was I not fully aware of where I was and what was happening around me. The difference was one of intensity of emotional perception and slightly more vivid color and texture effects. Part of the euphoria is from knowing that those fuzzy bright colors you see are not real, you don’t actually believe the fuzzy colors are there. That would be something.
It happened one of my first times around 14 years old, and it has happened a few times in my late 20’s and early 30’s. I’ve had homegrown, foraged, and store bought with similar intense experiences. I think people get hit wildly different if you are taking 12 grams, holy shit! I would never. I certainly have lost all track of what was real and where I was with lower doses than that. I believe you, but have experienced much more intense results myself with less than 12 grams. There was no understanding of reality in different scenarios.
Well I stand corrected then. I’ve never had that sort of experience.
Mushrooms are different, weight does not always have a direct relationship with how potent they are, prolly a better way to word this. Some people are also hypo/hyper sensitive, blood sugar plays a role. A lot of variables, the hardest I’ve ever tripped was on about 1.5 grams, and I usually eat around 3. Ive never been on the level described above, but have had experiences that were absolutely on their way to it. With enough psychedelics, it’s certainly possible.
Same, my friends and I who partake have never had a trip like that.
It’s always about more euphoria sensation and shedding pent up emotion, but we’re all old people.
Idk what shrooms you got but 12g would be quite a light dose, although that depends on bodyweight, tolerance and how much psilocybine your strain contains ofcourse.
But yeah from 30g onwards the lines between real and visuals becomes blurry.
He probably means dried shrooms. 4g would be a normal-high dose
Ah, haven’t had those so I’m not sure how much the weight differs.
But I’m guessing it’s about 4 to 1?
12g dried, pulverized to fine powder, and melted into milk chocolate sous vide.
If anyone ever reading this is thinking about making shroom chocolate, melt it sous vide to retain all the moisture and texture of milk chocolate instead of that dry, crumbly shroom chocolate.
It’s about 10 to 1
The recommended dose for people is 4 to 6 g. Of course it depends on how it’s prepared.
shrooms can be a bit of a dice room on visuals.
once boiled up half a shopping bag of shrooms and split the tea with one friend.
There were infinite moments where the fabric of space time twisted up into the cosmos believably revealing to me a path into the heavens. I had to control my breathing otherwise the torrent of everyday objects flowing past me would move too quickly for me to get enough traction.
I once had three tiny died shrooms, and a bong hit disconnected my soul from my body and transferring me into an ancient dog sleeping in the sun on a wide open field in the wilderness. the entire thing seemed to go for eons but collapsed back into my living room in and instant when some rang the doorbell.
Then I’ve had shrooms where the trip was extremely profound and emotional but the only visual was the leaves of the trees just looked a bit brighter and more flappy in wind or some swirly clouds of colors bouncing around my hifi speakers.
Cool motive, still (attempted) murder.
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Is it though? My understanding is that a murder charge requires intent to cause harm. Causing death without intent would be manslaughter. If someone is out of their mind in a panic attack and tries to shut down the plane so he could get to the ground, it would hard to prove he intended harm to the other passengers. They probably weren’t even in his thoughts.
Not a lawyer though, my understanding could be flawed.
*claimed he was
And I’m definitely not taking his word for it, surely blood/hair tests will tell the real story.
I’m not sure if psilocybin shows up on a follicle test.
I hate how idiots become the representation of what people want to control and destroy.
I can’t read the article but,
Joseph Emerson, who was off-duty at the time, was restrained by Alaska Airlines cabin crew after he tried to open an emergency exit
This headline is straight up propaganda then.
The headline is propaganda but not for that reason.
Dude was in the cockpit and pulled the fuel cutoff valves for the plane. The pilot and copilot kicked him out of the cockpit and re-engaged the fuel pumps and continued flying. Dude ran up to the fight attendants and told them that they need to handcuff him. Then he tried to open the emergency exit.
It’s propaganda because he said he took the mushrooms 40 hours ago they don’t last that long and he was also sleep deprived and emotionally unstable due to the recent death of a friend
Thank you for this!
This headline is straight up propaganda then.
That’s called a lie, not propaganda.
Propaganda and lies can be one in the same?
They can be, but that doesn’t make them completely interchangeable.
Charged with 83 counts of attempted murder. Holy crap! How was the cockpit unlocked so this guy delirious in a bad trip could even gain access?
He was an off-duty pilot catching a ride in the jump seat behind the pilots in the cabin, which is completely normal. The guy being a fucking lunatic is where things went wrong.
He was running on over 40 hours with no sleep. The shrooms were out of his system, since he had taken those over 48 hours previously. The lack of sleep caused him to have a disassociative episode. The airlines caused this, with their policies and corporate culture, and are desperately trying to absolve themselves of responsibility so they can keep overworking and underpaying their employees.
It’s called deadheading, it’s common.
Deadheading means you’re in the back of the plane. He was jumpseating, most likely commuting.
It doesn’t. The term probably originated with railcrews.
This isn’t a railroad car. Deadheading on aircraft mean the company is getting you from one place to another. You’re on the clock, on duty, and generally must be provided a seat in the back.
Jumpseating (usually for commuting) is when you travel on your own time, own dime, typically done before or after a trip. You may be provided a seat in the back, but if there are none you may be granted access to sit in the cockpit jumpseat. You are on duty when jumpseating and considered part of the crew.
Interesting coincidence that grateful dead fans are called deadheads, and consume a lot of mushrooms
He knew the secret handshake
As it turns out, Alaska Airlines made a mistake in hiring AFC Richmond’s bus driver as a pilot.
Now imagine if it had been Coach Beard 😏
Beard would know how to handle his shrooms
Upon reading the title, I thought that’s military, but civilian airline. Holy shit!
