About an hour ago I took two pumps of gynokadin dosergiel estradiol (approx 1.5mg I believe?). Will take 1 tablet (100mg) of Spironolactone tomorrow 🙏
Kinda feeling something already but it’s probably just placebo.
[yes, i am a cis woman but I feel (and look😓) like a man basically. I’m 23. Been to the gp and apparentlyyyy I’m only deficient in Vitamin D but Idek what they actually tested me for 🤷♀️ (besides that). I was basically told “NO”! to hrt. So since my life and health is awful, I decided to do a little research and got it myself. I am about to ovulate within the next week ish so I probably won’t take that much but we shall see how it goes!] Any advice welcome 🦋
please make an attempt to get to the root of the problem prior to medicating yourself. from your post history you seem to have insecurities that hrt of any sort WILL NOT fix. take it from someone who had those insecurities before starting feminizing hrt, it doesn’t fix deep cut mental issues.
as for how to get to that point, everyone is different, and most of us here aren’t qualified to take on a task like that. we can help and point you the right direction, but we cant diagnose you and we cant always have the right questions to ask you.
blindly taking hrt without blood tests and good reason is a good way to fuck your hormonal cycles up hard, especially as a cis woman.
its easy to see trans women praise hrt for its feminizing effects and want to replicate their experience, but you need to keep the context attached to that. we are coming from years and years of the completely wrong hormones and being socialized for them. the end result is a product of genetics and how much work is being put in to retrain ourselves socially. the hrt is just a way to get those genetics to come out and help feel more comfortable in our skin
I’m not discounting what you may be going through, life hands out its worst cards sometimes. but without knowing what the problem actually is youre just gonna hurt your chances of solving it before feeling worse
i wish the best for you, and discomfort in your own body and mind is the worst, trust me. please seek more appropriate means of fixing what you need to
You’re not just supposed to take random amounts of hormones and blockers. Certainly not blockers.
Please ask your doctor for the results of the test you had, or see if they are available for you online.
Your avg cis woman has estradiol levels ranging from something like 30 to 400 pg/mL (according to some sources, but I see others with greater ranges), but with an average closer to 100 pg/mL. Pay attention to when during your cycle you take tests. https://transfemscience.org/articles/e2-equivalent-doses/ this link mentions the parts of the cycle and the average level of E2 during the cycle. Whatever you measure on your tests won’t be exactly as on the table.
If you start taking spironolactone you should be aware that it can be uncomfortable and have long term side effects, which is why you need to start taking blood tests of your liver functions.
This document may be of help, but please keep in mind it’s aimed at amab transfem people, not afab people.
https://transfemscience.org/articles/transfem-intro/#monitoring-of-therapyIt mentions what things you should be testing for. You should test for at least estradiol, estrone, progesterone, testosterone, and dht.
Edit: Also again, you don’t know if this will help. It will likely affect your menstruation cycle. I don’t know if it will have any negative effects beyond the side effects of spiro. I hope this works out for you.
Also, in case it’s a kind of intersex condition please read this: https://genderdysphoria.fyi/en/chromosomes
I know you felt it wasn’t relevant last time but it really is. There are many kinds that work very differently. I’m not saying it’s certain that you are intersex, but it’s one possibility that isn’t often tested for.Isn’t that what everyone on here’s doing?
And my doctor - when I went in asking for a hormonal blood test - gave me a blood test but didn’t tell me exactly what was being tested and I only got told to take vitamin D. That’s what the result was.
I don’t see myself going and asking for another blood test regarding this only to get turned down again. I feel pretty alright just taking what I’ve got and going with it.
About intersex, I meant even if I have it it doesn’t make much difference to what I’m doing, how I feel, my plans to change.
The underlying cause of what is going on with you is very relevant and impacts what will and will not work. Reading about hormone imbalances and intersex conditions can absolutely make a difference.
I can’t see how it will make a difference. Maybe I’m being lazy about it but I just don’t see the point.
just an example: if you look like a man because you have estrogen insensitivity, buying and taking extra estrogen won’t help at all and you’re wasting money and taking needless risks.
Cis people have more diversity in their bodies and the way they look than most people realize, and cis women are confronted for being “trans” in womens’ restrooms all the time, way more frequently than trans women are, because there are way more cis women who don’t look like the perfect ideal of feminine beauty than there are trans women.
I’m not denying your suffering or distress, but I am saying that it’s entirely possible nothing is medically wrong with you and you are well within the natural diversity of human bodies.
Spironolactone is a pretty weak anti-androgen and will also cause lots of side-effects, some of which can be life-threatening. You should absolutely be monitored by a doctor when taking spiro, it’s not an exaggeration to say you are taking your life into your own hands. Spiro is not a typical part of a DIY regimen for trans women (for lots of reasons, but the medical risks are one of them).
The protocols and treatments designed over a century now for trans women are rooted in empirical evidence and studies that evaluate the risk / benefit of HRT and other interventions like surgeries, and they absolutely do not apply the same to cis women - in fact, the empirical evidence we have about body dysmorphia in cis women is exactly the opposite of the findings for trans women (i.e. for cis women interventions like surgery generally don’t generally improve outcomes or reduce distress or symptoms, and meanwhile they increase risk significantly; there isn’t even a protocol for HRT in non-menopausal cis women because there is absolutely zero reason for it, HRT is only needed when your body doesn’t produce enough of its own hormones - and we have no evidence your body isn’t producing enough estrogen let alone that it’s producing so much testosterone that you need an anti-androgen).
It’s a pseudo-science myth perpetuated by influencers and grifters that “more estrogen = more feminine”. The informed consent paperwork I signed to take HRT as a trans woman specifically says that taking more estrogen increases risks and does not increase feminization. And worse, unlike a trans woman whose body does not produce female levels of estrogen, your body likely already produces estrogen in more than sufficient amounts for your body’s functioning; it’s very unlikely you need more estrogen, and taking extra estrogen like this can increase your risk of breast cancer as well as disrupt your monthly menstrual & hormonal cycles.
Your body will also seek to maintain homeostasis and will likely reduce the amount of estrogen it produces in response to taking exogenous estrogen (the same as taking any other hormone your body naturally produces - e.g. if you took melatonin every night, eventually your body will just produce less melatonin and rely on the exogenous melatonin, you essentially form a “tolerance” over time that brings you back to where you started), so again you’re wasting money and risking your health for no added benefit.
Isn’t that what everyone on here’s doing?
No.
I don’t see myself going and asking for another blood test regarding this only to get turned down again. I feel pretty alright just taking what I’ve got and going with it.
I was hoping you could insist on getting the full report, or at least the hormone levels. I really really recommend you ask for them. Consider getting blood tests privately if your GP is no help. Again, spironolactone requires testing your liver functions.
If you do feel better then more power to you ofc, but knowing some basics will go a long way to make this safer for you.
Well I did ask for a hormonal blood test and basically got denied. I did have blood taken though (the gp didn’t fully disclose what for annoyingly) and I got the result last week for low vitamin D. That was it.
I don’t really care to get another blood test at this point. It is what it is…can’t see myself going private either.
And tbh, after doing loads of drugs in my younger days, I feel pretty OK just taking this stuff and seeing how it goes. I’m not that bothered. I made the effort to ask for a hormonal blood test and that failed so whatever basically.
But I appreciate your concern.
If you were denied a hormonal blood test, it could be because the doctor didn’t think there was sufficient reasons. Do you have significant facial hair, male-pattern baldness, dark hairs growing on your chest and belly, etc.? What is the evidence you actually have that you need an anti-androgen?
For context, when I had some cysts between my ribs as a teenager, the doctors took one look at me and immediately ordered hormone blood labs to check my estrogen because I looked feminine (soft skin, light body hair, not much facial hair for my age, larger breasts than boys my age, etc.). Doctors generally will run labs if they believe there is a credible reason to do so - all this tells me is the doctor you saw didn’t think there was justification for it.
While doctors are not always right, they’re also not always wrong; sometimes an issue like this could be a mental health concern and not a physiological issue, to be worked on in therapy.
It would be nice if you had a doctor who could explain to you why you don’t need your hormones checked, but if they didn’t think you needed it, one possibility is that you just don’t have the typical signs and symptoms of someone with an endocrine disorder (or intersex condition).
It had Lot to do with my inability to express my needs and concerns effectively. I DO look masc. i won’t go into detail but I do.
I’m sure she was reluctant about it because it’s a bit of a taboo and it’s quite unheard of for cis women under 40-50 to be prescribed hrt. She did say that if I wanted to check my hormones it would have to be done virtually every day for a matter of months or something like that (from fluctuations due to the cycle). So she sounded as though it wasn’t really a thing (?).
Annnd, I’ve also been checking out cis women or AFAB s experience taking what I’ve got so I’ve got a mix of information.
I’m going to echo the doubts about spiro being either useful or appropriate in this case. It’s really not ideal for what you’re trying to achieve, and even if it were, the risks are far out of proportion to the benefits it could bring for a cis woman with some kind of androgen issue.
The estradiol? Eh, the risks involved are within the range I’d say make it up to the individual as to being worth it, but I kinda doubt you’ll get what you want out of it, at least not without knowing exactly why you picked it. It’s not something I would recommend for a cis woman trying to reduce masculine features, as it tends to be weak in that regard. Not that it can’t do anything, it’s that a cis woman with normative levels isn’t going to get extra benefits.
But the spiro , you should just donate to someone in need. It’s really not going to help you, and it can hurt you.
Besides, doubling up new meds is a bad idea. You have to play smart so that you not only know what is working and isn’t, but can identify what’s causing any problems that arise. If you insist on using both, at least stagger their onset out by a few weeks so you can get a better idea of whether or not one is doing anything bad.
Going DIY with any med is iffy. So if any given person is going to do it, you have to use more caution than a prescribing doctor would, not less. You can’t get in a rush with this kind of thing.
I confuzzled because it’s pretty commonly taken for PCOS (which I may or not not have) so I don’t see the big deal. …
I get it, I do. It’s that may or may not that makes the difference. Pcos is enough of a health risk of its own that the drawbacks of spironolactone are generally worth it, and when combined with other hormonal supplementation, can end up with a net improvement in overall health. But it takes monitoring for it to be fully safe.
We’re not talking about minor dizziness and such. It’s the liver and kidney damage that’s the main factor in making it a poor choice for unmonitored use. By the time you catch the effects without regular testing, the damage done can be life threatening.
And, if it jacks up your potassium levels, you might not even get that much warning. People do go into cardiac arrest from it. It isn’t common, but it happens.
My sister was on it for a while, for pcos, and it caused long term problems despite being monitored. It’s a great drug with careful use, it saves lives as a diuretic. Or at least prolongs them. But it is most definitely not something to self administer.
Something like flutamide is way safer, and has less side effects in general. But, again, without knowing pcos is in play, you’ve got a really high chance of wasting money you could put to other treatments, or getting second or third opinions to determine what is in play.
It’s a numbers game. What is going to give you the best results with the least risks, for the least resources used. The estradiol at least has minimal short term risks, so I can see the equation shifting to trying it to see if it helps. No telling if the probability of that is high or low without knowing what traits are unwanted that you’re trying to shift, but at least it won’t kill you in the process if things go wrong. Well shouldn’t, since bodies can have some weird shit happen sometimes, but it’s not a significant risk.
If I was being a patient advocate for someone in my life, I’d be steering them towards other options even if they were being monitored medically. It’s my opinion that the only real benefit of spiro for DIY hrt is the price/availability factor. It’s usually affordable, and easier to get. And, for someone transitioning or dealing with something like prostate cancer, it would make sense because of the higher androgen production. For a cis woman, even with pcos, I just couldn’t advise it in good conscience.
But, to be clear, I totally support self care when the system fails. The issues you’re dealing with are significant and important. I just really think you’d be better served with a different plan of action.
Yee, staggering and reconsidering spiro is good advice
