Can we keep it at that please? I can live next hundred years without spinoff reboot of a prequel of a sequel of a main story, or Batman vs Moomin.
The Jansson estate has shown no interest in selling the IP.
They do license merchandise, and produces games and media, but they’ve done nothing that would “replace” the original works. Or sell them off to be homogenized into empires like Disney.
Supposedly Walt did try to get Tove to sell back in the day, but she wasn’t anywhere near the capitalist he was, and disgusted with how he went about “industrialising” art.
disgusted with how he went about “industrialising” art.
That seems a little on the strong side. Walt put out a bunch of lovingly-crafted movies that were as good as any others with respect to the source material. Americanised, polished and adapted yes, but respectful versions, I think.
Maybe she just didn’t want to deal with the major hassle of having creative control of a movie that would have taken a couple years to produce. I could definitely see that.
I don’t think so. Walt was a capitalist first, and artist second.
Tove made money in order to write. Walt made movies in order to make money.
And he absolutely pioneered “industrialising” the process to increase production speed, scale and profit.
That he had the sense to maintain quality while doing so was pragmatism, not just artistic integrity. Disney movies are products first and expression second. That was always true.
Tove flips that, expressing herself first, and making a living second. And she refused to sell to Walt because of that.
Maybe she just didn’t want to deal with the major hassle of having creative control of a movie that would have taken a couple years to produce. I could definitely see that.
Her and Lars were directly involved in several bigger productions. The multiple seasons of the anime, chief among them.
Tove built a completely original franchise literally from scratch.
Walt wanted to buy one.
I find that almost comically cynical. In a capitalist system, especially the American entertainment industry, it’s completely unremarkable to be a capitalist, or to integrate money-making and industrial technique into a process of producing multiple films based on multiple source material. Let’s not pretend either that Disney had any deep resources or help upon that stuff-- he was literally building the whole thing up from scratch, risking his skin much of the time.
I have zero problem with Jansson maintaining artistic integrity and being known for such, but the idea that Walt didn’t direct a tremendous amount of effort in to the aesthetic side of things is just naive. You don’t get masterpieces like Fantasia and Pinocchio and Snow White (etc) without taking major financial risks, which he indeed did on multiple occasions. He established drawing and animation schools which became pretty-much the peak training standards for many years, and unleashed all kinds of creative forces and talents in to comics and animation since then.
The fact is that Disney and Jansson existed in completely different worlds, aiming for very different things, and I don’t have a problem understanding that, but it kinda sounds like you do. I also think it’s completely fair to critique him for any number of things, flawed person as he was, but to just hand-wave away his many achievements as little more than capitalistic imperative is plainly an obtuse reading of the situation to me, and unnecessary.
I said he was an artist second.
Not that he wasn’t one at all.
How is that naive or hand-wavy?
In a capitalist system, especially the American entertainment industry, it’s completely unremarkable to be a capitalist, or to integrate money-making and industrial technique into a process of producing multiple films based on multiple source material.
Yes. The remarkable one was Tove.
Let’s not pretend either that Disney had any deep resources or help upon that stuff-- he was literally building the whole thing up from scratch, risking his skin much of the time.
I didn’t say otherwise.
but the idea that Walt didn’t direct a tremendous amount of effort in to the aesthetic side of things is just naive.
Not what I said.
You don’t get masterpieces like Fantasia and Pinocchio and Snow White (etc) without taking major financial risks, which he indeed did on multiple occasions.
I didn’t say otherwise.
He established drawing and animation schools which became pretty-much the peak training standards for many years, and unleashed all kinds of creative forces and talents in to comics and animation since then.
Yes.
but to just hand-wave away his many achievements as little more than capitalistic imperative is plainly an obtuse reading of the situation to me, and unnecessary.
And not at all what I’m saying.
You’re acting like I think Tove is some saint that didn’t also build a multi-million media empire of her own.
They had flipped priorities, and you’re responding as if I’m claiming that people can only place importance on one thing at a time. But priority number two on the list is still pretty high.
I mean, fair enough? But on the whole, I found that a shockingly dismissive, cynical take on Disney, almost as if you were coming from a visceral place with all that.
And it’s all very well to recognise that I had some valid points there, but the reason I mentioned them at all is because you completely skipped that POV.
I’m claiming that people can only place importance on one thing at a time.
I found that to be the general tenor of your comment, yes. Maybe I misunderstand, and I apologise if so. I never thought I’d have to defend Walt Disney from someone as generally bright as you, yet here we are.
Just for the record, I absolutely despise modern Disney films. To me, most of them are hammy product primarily designed for American markets. I think maybe that started shifting from the time that Walt passed (1966), and only picked up steam in later decades.
*shrug*
You flew off the handle when I said Walt industrialised art.
Did he not do that?
You have valid points, only in that I never said anything that made making them necessary in the first place.
Maybe I misunderstand
You absolutely do. You’re arguing against points you assumed I held entirely on your own.
Walt had artistic integrity. But he was also more than happy to take the first steps in watering down artistic expression in order to widen the audience for profit.
I don’t think he would personally have taken things as far as they’ve gone, but he WAS prepared to engage in the kind of consolidation of IPs that has led to modern Disney.
The artist owning the art was only a sacred concept to him concerning the things HE made.
Thankfully it’s big in Japan, so we can still look forward to MOOMIN vs CAPCOM!
Batman doesn’t have a chance! It would have to be Alien and Predator vs. Mumin.
thankfully moomin francise is quite well protected. I doubt there is little chance of it being abused like that.
