If each of us organizes in our local communities and gets people to pool the small amount of wealth that they have together to form a co-op where the leader is elected by the people who joined, and then all of these co-ops join together and each of the leaders elects a leader, and continue this process until we have the working class of the country join this, then all the control is in the hands of the workers who can then directly vote to purchase important companies like homebuilders, food producers, etc. would this not pull the commanding heights away from capital and into the hands of the workers (replicating China’s tiered merit system. If existing capital tries to stop it, as they inevitably will, then we have justification for revolution and the leaders of these co-ops can become the new vanguard. Am I just to naive to believe that this actually has a chance at doing anything or do I have a viable strategy. If not where did I go wrong and what could be improved (or should the whole thing just be scrapped)

    • Comrade1917@lemmygrad.mlOP
      24·
      3 days ago

      I was just asking because I thought of the idea… Idk what else to do besides directly finding one of the people on Epstein’s list and trading my life for theirs. If I saw one of them in person I would absolutely do that but idk how to even get close. I could try to form a group but I will absolutely not do that because any other person involved in this plan is a potential liability who could be a fed. So I would have to do that alone. Is someone providing me with advice to do this directly incriminating to the provider (if so please do not provide it I don’t want to implicate anyone here). There are other ways to organize besides this but idk how anything other than forming an entire seperate system of government with some form of enforcement (and no one reporting anyone for breaking laws of the current government would work.) Anything with an actual revolution outright seems impossible in the US without just waiting for it to collapse on its own. At that point I might as well give up directly and move to a socialist state now so I don’t have to live in the US (if I benefit from the system at all without trying to overthrow it I feel like I am doing something wrong. So the only solution is to either overthrow it or leave so that I do not support it with taxes (yes I know taxes don’t directly find the government but receiving less of them slightly accelerated the collapse)). If there is anything else I could do that doesn’t involve instant violence (or planing to commit violence please tell me). Im just tired of libs saying "it’s the legal system’s job to do something (ignoring the fact that the Epstein class directly controls that). I don’t want to be the hypocritical person saying that SOMEONE (not me) should do something. Sorry if I said anything that breaks the rules here I have autism and don’t know how to properly articulate things in a way that sounds normal to people. (Sorry for the text wall and all the parentheses lol).

      • BarrelsBallot@lemmygrad.ml
        9·
        3 days ago

        I’m so conflicted because I checked your post history and despite this being like- the 3rd or 4th revolution post you’ve made which would normally make me think you’re genuine (no way a fed would slip so many times)- but I know they got rid of all the experienced FBI staff so you might just be a Kash Patel hire.

        If you’re real, go Ho Chi Minh mode (think pre-war with france).

        If you’re a fed, post some insider info so we can make better Polymarket bets

      • cfgaussian@lemmygrad.ml
        8·
        2 days ago

        Jumping straight to adventurism is not going to achieve anything if the masses are not yet ready for that level of direct action. It may even be counterproductive.

        I would suggest that the first thing you need to do is join an org. PSL or similar. Participate in organizing protests and strikes whenever the opportunity arises. Help to educate people, raise awareness and raise class consciousness. Agitate against war, militarism, sanctions and interventions. Form or join a mutual aid group. Organize community defense and solidarity action to protect vulnerable people like immigrants from ICE and police. Form a tenant union to protect people who are threatened with eviction by their landlords.

        There are many, many things that you can do to help. The revolution isn’t something that you can will into being just by having “the right plan”. It is something that needs to be built organically from the grassroots. It takes time and hard work. It also depends on the right circumstances in the economic and political situation. It is therefore important to recognize when opportunities for radicalization and for advancing the struggle to the next stage present themselves. We are absolutely entering such a period right now.

        It is prime time for radicalizing people against the bourgeois regime through protesting and organizing against this unpopular war. Material conditions are about to deteriorate drastically in the next few months in many places across the world. It is more important than ever that we as communists are out there helping people to recognize where their interests lie, how the interests of capital led us into this crisis, and that it is possible to collectively organize against the imperialist ruling class and its comprador lackeys.

        If you want to move to a socialist country you can do so and nobody will hold it against you. But as citizens of the imperial core it will always be the case that we can do more by acting from within the belly of the beast than we can do from the outside.

        • Comrade1917@lemmygrad.mlOP
          19·
          3 days ago

          But don’t people believe that people on the Epstein list need to die and are just too afraid to do anything? I got into communism through thinking about things from a utilitarian perspective. Me trading my life for someone who has committed and will continue to commit violent acts is a net positive utility even if it doesn’t cause the revolution. Honestly I don’t really care wether I live or die anymore. Even if my life is objectively fine living in the current system is like living while waiting until I die. So if I’m going to die eventually I might as well die in a useful way right? I am bad at socializing irl so any organizing I will do will probably produce a negligible effect. I feel my death in this way is more objectively valuable than my life. If this is wrong then why?

          • ArcticFoxSmiles@lemmygrad.ml
            9·
            2 days ago

            Go touch grass. Join a club or group even if it is not political just be part of you local community or environment. Maybe consider a hobby or something that can get your mind off things and get help build up your confidence.

          • cfgaussian@lemmygrad.ml
            10·
            3 days ago

            Evil people are more replaceable than you are. The system has and will continue to produce evil people. You will not get rid of them unless you get rid of the entire system. For every Epstein you off there are ten more waiting to take his place. A good hearted, well educated revolutionary helping people and helping to advance the working class struggle can make much more of a difference for humanity than the elimination of dozens of these evil psychopaths.

            For some historical perspective, i would advise you read about the history of the Narodnik movement and their lack of success with the strategy of individual attacks on representatives of the ruling class, vs. the lessons that the Bolsheviks learned from this and Lenin’s proven successful strategies for revolutionary organizing. When individuals act alone they are weak and unlikely to effect change. We are strongest when we act collectively.

            If you are interested in a starting point for your reading, here is a piece by Lenin that quite thoroughly criticizes the strategy of individual adventurism.

            • cfgaussian@lemmygrad.ml
              9·
              3 days ago
              Some context on what Narodism was:

              A secret Narodnik society known as “Narodnaya Volya” (“People’s Will”) began to plot the assassination of the tsar. On March 1, 1881, members of the “Narodnaya Volya” succeeded in killing Tsar Alexander II with a bomb. But the people did not benefit from this in any way. The assassination of individuals could not bring about the overthrow of the tsarist autocracy or the abolition of the landlord class. The assassinated tsar was replaced by another, Alexander III, under whom conditions of the workers and peasants became worse still.

              The method of combating tsardom chosen by the Narodniks, namely, by the assassination of individuals, by individual terrorism, was wrong and detrimental to the revolution. The policy of individual terrorism was based on the erroneous Narodnik theory of active “heroes” and a passive “mob”, which awaited exploits from the “heroes”. This false theory maintained that it is only outstanding individuals who make history, while the masses, the people, the class, the “mob”, as the Narodnik writers contemptuously called them, are incapable of conscious, organised activity and can only blindly follow the “heroes”. For this reason the Narodniks abandoned mass revolutionary work among the peasantry and the working class and changed to individual terrorism. They induced one of the most prominent revolutionaries of the time, Stepan Khalturin, to give up his work of organising a revolutionary workers’ union and to devote himself entirely to terrorism.

              By these assassinations of individual representatives of the class of exploiters, assassinations that were of no benefit to the revolution, the Narodniks diverted the attention of the working people from the struggle against that class as a whole. They hampered the development of the revolutionary initiative and activity of the working class and the peasantry.

              The Narodniks prevented the working class from understanding its leading role in the revolution and [delayed] the creation of an independent party of the working class.

              Although the Narodniks’ secret organisation had been smashed by the tsarist government, Narodnik views continued to persist for a long time among the revolutionary-minded intelligentsia. The surviving Narodniks stubbornly resisted the spread of Marxism in Russia and hampered the organisations of the working class.

              Marxism in Russia could therefore grow and gain strength only by combating Narodism.

              Link:::

  • happybadger [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
    13·
    3 days ago

    That’s basically what the Germans did in 1920s Council Communism.

    Capitalism was easily able to defang it by creating rival bourgeois councils. Currently we call them “Chamber of Commerce” and they’re one of the main forces behind local reactionary politics. They formed a good base for the Nazis.