I am looking to buy my first handgun. I have very little experience with guns, though I did shoot rifles when I was a kid.
Can you give me some advice on buying one or point me to some good resources?
Get a PSA dagger in 9mm please.
I have invested so much time and so much money into this area of community building. I only say that because I don’t want to come across as a dick.
The dagger is a Glock19 gen3 knockoff. You’re buying a generic drug instead of the latest hotness. Please be aware that my use case is community defense and affordability. Yours may vary.
The reason for Glock (clone):
This is the most common gun/caliber in America which means:
- In the case of societal collapse you will find magazines, ammunition and parts in your nearest lifted truck with a punisher sticker.
- You will find common parts in any gun store such as lights, holsters, optics
- Ammunition is cheap and abundant
- Your comrades are likely to have the same gun and you can share ammo and magazines.
- It is likely you can hand this to an armed comrade and they will be able to operate it safely
- You are the comrade and I am handing you a magazine
- Many pistol caliber carbines will be able to accept Glock magazines so you need 9mm and Glock mags and you are more effective
Your first guns should be Glock 9mm and an AR15 in 556. After that, go find a nice gun that fits in your hand or looks cool.
A dagger will go on sale with a threaded barrel for <300. A Glock is better but IMO not worth the extra money. Function over form.
I will answer whatever questions you have as best I can. I am a competition shooter (not that that means anything but it does mean I take this seriously), have been shooting for years and spend my time organizing and training shooters on the left.
You like it? I tried out the Shadow Systems Glock 17 clone at a range a while back, think it was the DR920. The thing kept jamming 2-3 times every magazine.
Ended up buying a 17, but it feels a bit chunky, was thinking about getting either a 19 or a 48, haven’t decided yet, would probably be concealing later on.
Which would you prefer?
I’ve put thousands of rounds through my daggers and they never jam. I don’t clean them hardly ever. And I stress them with moon dust.
I prefer the full size because I am larger than most and they fit my hand better.
Liking them isn’t super relevant IMO. I like my Beretta hammer fired, it’s butter and it looks sick. But I think guns are practical tools more than anything else.
Whatever works for you is good. I’ll still stand by my arguments of utility for a Glock, though. The chief advantages of a handgun are that they are concealable and portable. You are not going to be accurate beyond ten yards at best (assuming a real world use case) so springing for a gucci handgun is folly imo. Even if it feels clunky, they all kind of suck to shoot anyway.
Liking them isn’t super relevant
Very important thing that consumerist capitalist gun culture fails to promote, it seems most online discussion is around guns as sports equipment or range toys as opposed to practical tools and this creates confusion about what’s important when one has no practical experience.
A debate I have been having is: Is it better for a new shooter to purchase a gun that makes them want to shoot it and train, even if it’s less practical than the good ole Glock? I feel like it’s case by case…
It does depend on the use case and I do agree comfort and aesthetics are important. My use case is preparing for whatever comes next in US society as the contradictions sharpen. So, for me and people I work with, we all want to be able to share with each other in a crisis. That dictates you train with the tool for the job and that means practice with glocks even if you don’t like them.
There’s a fair amount of people that want their ccw to train with and carry. Obviously we’ll still train and build community if they’re on the left. But any rational person on the left is not trying to be rugged individual Rambo, they understand community is more important and that they’re not going to be John wick with a pistol.
That being said any rifle in the hands of a socialist is a socialist rifle. I don’t care if it’s a galil. We don’t have time for that kind of bickering.
Have shot all, would conceal the 43x MOS all day. The optics-ready S&W Shield Plus for extra large hands and the P365 for very small hands. I personally don’t “feel” guns as I’m shooting them, I look for adequate space for my support hand and proper trigger reach, the rest doesn’t matter as far as fit goes.
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So by generic Glock you mean it will fit with Glock magazines? I’ve never heard of generic guns that match major manufacturers’ specifications, though I do have two generic magazines I can shoot from fine, but they stick out a few mm on the bottom. It does not affect their ability to feed rounds into the chamber, it’s just an imperfect fit vs my OEM mag.
When they said “generic” in comparison to drugs, what they were trying to convey is, other than some aesthetics “carbon fucking copy”. It was marketed as a clone, which means all Glock parts fit interchangeably. You could take a slide off a dagger and put in on a Glock, or a Glock trigger housing and put it in a dagger.
A dagger is generic to a Glock like ibuprofen is generic to Advil. They are exactly the same functionally, just the package and name brand tax differ. It’s not like comparing generic building blocks to name brand Legos.
Thanks for the clarification. I would have assumed there would be legal issues with that. Like with medicine, I think they have 5 or 7 years in the US before generics can start getting made.
I’m not sure how the patent works with mechanical stuff, but I know Google have been essentially the same for close to 50 years. They just changed something to make them not able to accept a “switch”, but the Internet engineers broke that before the new models were even out, lol!
What are your goals with it? If you’re thinking of target practice or concealed carry or something like that would help refine advice
I actually would like to conceal carry and learn to be skilled with using it. I’m planning to go to a shooting range to practice once I get one.
If it’s an option in your area, it’s well worth it to go to a 'rent and shoot ’ range to try several firearms. What works well for one individual’s hands and body may be very different for another. Also with handling options at a reputable local store or the firearms dept of a local big chain like Sportsman’s Warehouse or Cabela’s.
If considering concealed carry use, reliability is paramount; best to stick with trusted and proven models/brands which might cost a couple extra hundred dollars compared to a similarly featured lesser known brand/model. Lots of useful reviews on various forums and YouTube in that regard.
Practically speaking (IMO), you don’t necessarily need features like a ported barrel or a massive magazine capacity. 9mm striker fire compact models like a S&W shield/shield+, SIG p365, Glock g43 or g19, etc are all popular options which aren’t crazy expensive. .380 versions of some of those are also applicable, but some would argue the cartridge doesn’t have enough stopping power, odds are they’re citing FBI penetration guidelines which aren’t a terrible metric to reference in that regard, but I wouldn’t completely disregard the caliber based solely on that.
Read up on the reality of concealed carry and understand that if you ever have to defend yourself the gun becomes evidence for likely years so don’t spend a fortune; $300-600 is plenty, depending on model. Spend the extra $ for a cleaning kit specific to the caliber and some CLP and spare cleaning patches; if you’re trusting it to protect your life then it doesn’t make sense to depend on it in anything but a known good condition.
You’re gonna face massive police scrutiny even if it’s a textbook self defence case if you ever have to use it so while you’re researching what models to consider (and hopefully test at a rent & shoot range) spend some time reading up on legal advice. Memorize the language that’s advised to use if you ever have to call the cops after a defensive shoot and get real comfortable with some version of the phrase “I cannot answer questions without my attorney present” after which you shut up until said attorney is present, invoking your 5th amendment right to remain silent if applicable.
Finally, if you decide on a handgun to purchase, practice at what’s reasonable for the application (target size and distance, adult torso silhouette at 5-10 yds for most concealed carry applications), including with the ammo you’re intending to have loaded if carrying concealed; if the ammo doesn’t run well with the gun then it’s better to find out that it jams at the range than when it matters. Bullet type (round nose vs hollow point or similar) can be a polarizing topic with some folks (often prosecutors) portraying the use of hollow points as being intent to murder, but they plainly cause more damage on soft tissue. Gonna want to practice drawing (safely unloaded, please, unless at a facility that allows draw and shoot and even then be extremely cautious) from whatever holster you settle on as well, even if you feel silly doing so until you can reliably do so quickly; get ready to end up with a drawer of not-good-enough holsters before you find the one that suits your body/firearm best.
No offense meant but please do not concern yourself with legality or a courtroom if you need to use a firearm in self defense. You fuck that person up and deal with survivor problems later.
The intent of this post is to promote new information that has become more widespread as the gun community grows as well as my own experience.
If it’s an option in your area, it’s well worth it to go to a 'rent and shoot ’ range to try several firearms. What works well for one individual’s hands and body may be very different for another. Also with handling options at a reputable local store or the firearms dept of a local big chain like Sportsman’s Warehouse or Cabela’s.
Brand new or first time shooters should factor their own lack of experience or frame of reference into these decisions, how a gun “feels in the hand” is usually used to upsell newcomers.
FBI penetration guidelines which aren’t a terrible metric to reference in that regard, but I wouldn’t completely disregard the caliber based solely on that.
The FBI’s testing was the best done on handguns ever, and was extremely comprehensive, involving barrier and bone structure elements as well as penetration. The main finding was that the bullet used in Hornady Critical Duty +P (FTX) and Federal HST +P ammunition was more important than the caliber as long as that caliber developed adequate velocity, with more velocity being preferable. Calibers that are on the edge under test conditions like .380 are likely to be ineffective under real, and the FBI adopted 9mm after .40 and 10mm based on a huge body of data. Multiple, accurate hits to the nervous or circulatory system are needed to quickly and reliably force a break in contact because handgun rounds are ballistically far inferior to rifle rounds.
Finally, if you decide on a handgun to purchase, practice at what’s reasonable for the application (target size and distance, adult torso silhouette at 5-10 yds for most concealed carry applications)
Training to this standard will likely be inadequate for a defensive encounter. If your best day at the range with no combat stress reactions looks like peppering someone with a few nonlethal wounds, an actual violent encounter will go much worse. Look at all the videos of pigs magdumping people and whiffing half their rounds while they are rushed down. Statistically, they miss most of their shots and do not kill or disable most of the people they shoot one-on one. They get a full size gun and an OWB holster too! The lesson that should be taken from this is that the police marksmanship standards are completely inadequate for a single civilian with no backup to rely on.
Bullet type (round nose vs hollow point or similar) can be a polarizing topic with some folks (often prosecutors) portraying the use of hollow points as being intent to murder, but they plainly cause more damage on soft tissue.
If you don’t live in New Jersey, carry hollow points. They are night and day different from FMJ and evidence to support the commonly cited hypothetical has not been presented in all the many years it has been brought up on the internet.
If you’re in a metro area, there are likely leftist gun groups and in my experience there’s usually every type of gun under the sun at range days and people want you to try them.
The advice I commonly hear is “buy a glock.” Seems to work out for folks I know.
If you have a range USA near you then you can rent some guns there to try out - its included with a membership. If you’re not familiar with handguns though then they do require you come with someone for the first time. This was how I recently picked up my first , I basically just tried everything and only paid for ammo and targets (went with someone who had a membership).
If you want more things to help narrow down, look for “striker fired” (as opposed to “hammer fired”) , 9mm, just to keep it simple.
One thing that will help you get comfortable with whatever you purchase more quickly is dry firing very regularly. It’ll help ingrain safety practices, stance, grip, and trigger pull. Everything but the BOOM and with the added benefit of being a heck of a lot cheaper than going to the range very frequently while you’re learning.
Go to a beginner hand gun class before you buy. Tell them it’s your first experience and you don’t currently own a handgun, and they will let you rent one for the class. After the class, ask to handle 1 popular conceal carry model from each major manufacturer. See what fits your grip well, what’s comfortable, easy to handle etc. Then ask to rent your top 2 or 3 and fire them on the range, see what you like.
My 2 cents, Walther and Canik fit my grip the best, nice runner ups are Springfield and S&W. 9mm and .380 are the top 2 calibers, especially in conceal carry.
Good advice here about getting hands-on experience with some. Besides that: keep it simple. Go for 9mm. If you plan to conceal carry, get the biggest pistol you can comfortably carry. Teeny tiny pistols are (in general) less accurate, particularly with follow-up shots.
I second Wakmrow’s suggestion, the Dagger is gonna be your best option to start with for all the reasons he mentions and more besides.
He recommends the full size dagger, since you mention concealed carry it’s worth noting that this is a big pistol and is not suitable for concealed carry. The Compact Dagger has a shorter slide and grip and is on the bigger side of what can be carried, and the Micro Dagger is thinner than the Compact one. It’s essentially a Glock 43x, which has become the AK-47 of concealed carry guns, but will be a little harder to learn on than the Compact Dagger.
The full size Dagger is equivalent to a Glock 17, the Compact to a Glock 19, and the Micro to a Glock 43x as previously mentioned.
Handguns are really hard to shoot well. It’ll be a long journey to get competent, I recommend watching the videos from (in order of depth and brainworm hazard) Tenicor, Joel Park, and Ben Stoeger to learn their performant, teachable target-focused technique which is way more important than which particular gun you have.
Having an optic on a handgun makes the difficult process of learning way easier, Swampfox makes super cheap RMR pattern ones (Liberty) if a Holosun is not something your budget can support.
I think I mixed up my Glock numbering and I think you’re correct.
Also, hard second getting an optic ready pistol and getting an optic. This is something that will immediately make you a better pistol shot.
I also think with committed dry firing and range time, most able bodied people will be more competent than the cops in about a month.
Thanks for the responses everyone.
Look through my comments on this comm, I’ve done a few write ups.
Going with a Glock clone is a solid recommendation. Personally, go with the Ruger RXM. But for concealed carry, you’re going to have to think through clothing options and how to conceal it. The thickness of the average handgun can make it difficult for certain body shapes and wardrobes. If concealment without the gun “printing” is a priority, you can go with the “micro 9” category, they’ve figured out how to slim down a 9mm while keeping good capacity. These guns are typically 1" wide or less and popular models are Glock 43x, Sig P365, Canik Mc9, and the Smith & Wesson Shield Plus (that’s one of my carry guns). 2 big problems with these guns though. They often have smaller grips so they require more training and practice, and because they’re lighter weight they tend to recoil more which makes them all the more difficult to shoot. This is especially applicable for a new shooter.
Folks at dedicated gun stores will help you sort a lot of this stuff out in person. And if they have guns for rent, go try several options.
So in brief, if you’re getting just one for concealed carry and in case things get really bad - get a Glock clone.
