You wouldn’t think of a European community of being so insanely pro Russia, yet on every single post mentioning Russia, any negative comments about Russia or their government will get downvoted to hell, some people get banned. I would not be surprised if I am banned or downvoted for posting this. People who are not just blatantly spamming Kremlin propaganda, please say why you are so pro Russia, to someone confused.

    • Kenvexity@lemmy.mldeleted by creatorOP
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      Yet the Russian Federation isn’t communist. Do they still think of it as the Soviet Union? If so, they are incredibly mistaken.

      • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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        No, no communist thinks the RF is the Soviet Union (or RSFSR, which was the specifically Russian part of the USSR). What communists understand is that the Russian Federation is currently strategically aligned against imperialism, and is a strong ally of socialist countries, due to inherited political ties and capitalist encirclement. Communists support a revolution in Russia to overthrow the nationalists and reinstate socialism, but not on western terms.

        • Kenvexity@lemmy.mldeleted by creatorOP
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          So they support it for being anti-western, even though it has little in common with a socialist nation? Just to make it clear

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            That’s an oversimplification, but close-ish to the truth. The Russian Federation is presently anti-imperialist and is helping socialist countries. This is what communists support. Communists do not support the capitalist decay of the Russian Federation, and want a restoration of socialism in Eastern Europe. This is why it is “critical support,” same with Iran for example. Socialist countries like China and Cuba are supported with less reservations, hence the distinction between critical and general support.

            • Kenvexity@lemmy.mldeleted by creatorOP
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              Okay, thanks for clearing it up. I thought the people here supported the Russian Federation fully in its current form,not wanting it to change, but you made a good point.

              • DJ Putler@lemmy.mlB
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                I’m most optimistic about their foreign policy of mutual development & the ministry of defense pushing for more state planning of industrial capacity. It’s more than just being a countervailing wind to the US bloc with their nuclear arsenal & alliance with China, which hasn’t had enough time to build one up yet. The problem is the Kremlin & the central bank are still pretty neoliberal.

            • freagle@lemmy.ml
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              Well, hold on. Maybe we don’t all want a restoration of the USSR. It would be great from Russia to become communist again, but it doesn’t need to be a restoration. In fact, given its failures, I would think the better path would be for the formation of a net new socialist republic in Russia, and in the former Soviet states, but necessarily the same formation as in the past.

              • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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                Fair! I actually agree, and would want something more similar to China with respect to how administrative divisions are handled. I was simplifying it for OP, but you make a good point.

          • davel [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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            We’re not anti-Western qua Western. There just happens to be a lot of overlap between the West and imperialism.

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        It looks like we need to unpack what the phrase critical support actually means. Communists don’t look at the Russian Federation and imagine the Soviet Union, nor does nobody think Putin is building socialism. The support is a strategic judgment about the global balance of forces, rooted in a materialist reading of where the primary contradiction lies rather than having anything to do with Russia’s internal character.

        The primary contradiction in the world is a bloc conflict between Western imperialist states, led by the United States, and the Global South. Western imperialism is the system that enforces economic extraction through debt, sanctions, military bases, trade rules, enabled by dollar’s reserve status. It’s the force that has strangled development in the Global South and consistently prevented any alternative path of development from gaining traction. As long as that system remains unchallenged there can be no space for experiments in socialism or even genuinely sovereign capitalist development that could later be transformed. That makes breaking Western hegemony a prerequisite for any meaningful change going forward.

        Russia currently acts as the main military force directly challenging American led unipolar order. While it’s not doing it for communist reasons, their push against NATO expansion and efforts to build alternative financial and trade architectures with BRICS are objectively opening fractures in Western dominance. Russia bogs down NATO in Ukraine and exposes the limits of Western power which, in turn, weakens the imperialist camp creating room for left movements to grow around the world.

        So when communists say they critically support Russia, we are not endorsing Russia’s internal political system, its capitalist class, nationalist ideology, or its treatment of workers and leftists inside its borders. Our support is conditional and tactical, extending only as far as Russia acts as a counter hegemonic force. The moment Russia pivots toward trying to carve up the world with Western powers or becomes a new oppressor of weaker nations in a way that simply replaces current imperialist hierarchy, that support goes away. Communists are internationalists who see the current moment as one where the central task as weakening the main enemy.

        I’ll use a historical parallel to help make this all more concrete. Communists critically supported the Allied powers against nazi Germany during the second world war even though the Allies were capitalist imperialists themselves, and just as is the case with Russia today, no one mistook Churchill or Roosevelt for being socialists. The point was that fascism represented the most aggressive and immediate threat to the working class and to the possibility of socialist advance. Today, that threat happens to be Western imperialism with its endless hot wars along with economic warfare against the rest of the world. And the scope of critical support is about actively disrupting Western imperialism.

        We live in a world where the US and its vassals can dictate terms to everyone else, and breaking Western hegemony leads to one with more possibilities for mass movements and resource sovereignty creating more room for socialist organizing. Russia’s resistance helps crack that door open, and that’s why it makes sense to make tactical alignment on one particular axis of struggle while maintaining full independence on all others which is what giving critical support is.

        • robear@lemmy.zip
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          becomes a new oppressor of weaker nations

          Unless it’s Georgia, Moldova or Ukraine.

          In which case, fuck those *flips rolodex* Nazi’s.

          • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.ml
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            I just love how you trolls keep pretending there are no nazis in Ukraine even as Poland is now having an official row with Ukraine over it. Like no way you can be that detached from reality. You know exactly what you’re doing here fash.

            • robear@lemmy.zip
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              Just like there’s no Nazi’s in Russia eh buddy. They literally deployed a state funded neo-Nazi mercenary group in their imperialist war (Wagner).

              Maybe Russia needs a special military operation for de-nazification.

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                  Excellent rebuttal.

                  Supporting the Russian state as an anti-imperialist force is not just wrong but hypocritical.

                  America can be bad without Russia having to be good.

        • Labor Class@lemmy.world
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          Lemmy.ml is broadly federated, so anything that suggests Ukraine may not be winning the war is down voted by people from Lemmy.world, etc.

          that is right. My posts, which show the reality of Ukraine get downvoted. My posts/comments that criticize Russia get upvotes.

          • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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            There are many Lemmy.ml users critically supportive of Russia. Posting anti-Ukrainian or pro-Russian content on a community on Lemmy.ml gets higher upvotes and fewer down votes/removals than other instances. This is being perceived as being more pro-Russian by OP.

  • geneva_convenience@lemmy.mlM
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    When someone posts something and the response is “this is Russian propaganda” instead of addressing it they get downvoted. Or banned if they pair it with insults against users.

    There’s selective outrage on Russia when the EU and NA are genociding all over the world. You post BBC (British state media) and nobody bats an eye. But you post RT and every Liberal loses their mind.

    The reason many people feel weirded out is because these perspectives are banned from Reddit and most other Liberal spaces and therefore people learn to self-censor and to tell others not to talk about it.

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      Well, as with the latest ruling by the Court of Justice of the European Union on case C-67/25, sharing sanctioned media on open sites like this one, will make you, personally as a user or as an operator of the service, liable before a criminal court. Why? Because it‘s deemed Russian propaganda.

    • Aniki@feddit.org
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      it’s all about the economic situation. large masses of people were wealthy in the US in 1960 and people saw that and said “well, here in the west it works well for us” (somehow without owning the means of production) meanwhile there’s just soo many stories about long food-lines and general poverty in the former sovjet union. talk to anyone from romania and they will shout your ears full how much they hate the sovjet union.

      so, do you think it’s fair that lots of people have a pro-western bias?


      i recognize that the US is rapidly enshittifying people’s economic situation these days. this is mostly a historical contemplation. the future will be different than the past.

      • 秦始皇帝@lemmy.ml
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        i recognize that the US is rapidly enshittifying people’s economic situation these days

        Since it’s inception through it’s long campaign of perpetrating, funding, and backing colonialism, neocolonialism, and imperialism across the periphery.

      • geneva_convenience@lemmy.mlM
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        I’ve got a story of 500 trucks waiting in line to feed people in a concentration camp but the West blocking them from entering.

        Here’s a meme from the front page today

  • AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml
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    A lot of time you find yourself defending the truth. Russia is a state enemy of the US-Western hegemony which controls the largest and most expensive propaganda machine that’s ever been created.

  • freagle@lemmy.ml
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    Russia is in a contest with European empire and basically has been for centuries. Napoleon invaded Russia. The Americans invaded Russia. The Germans invaded Russia.

    Did they do this because Russia is inherently “bad”? No. They did it to advance European empire. In the case of the Germans and the Americans, they explicitly did it to stop the working class from holding power and directing their own government to develop along the communist path.

    Russia became capitalist and liberal and then it tried to join the Western Empire. It really thought it could be part of the club that rules the world so brutally and violently. But the West rebuffed Russia multiple times and then demonstrated that they had not yet given up their goal of subjugating Russia and exploiting it for resources. So Russia took up the position, finally, that the West cannot be trusted and that Russia must prevent the West from ever being able to subjugate it.

    In the current contest between Russia and Ukraine, everyone in the political spheres understands this as a proxy war between Russia and the West. US military leaders have said it, NATO leaders have said it. It’s not a Russian expansionist project. It’s a proxy war, which is how the West has been fighting with Russia for at least 6 decades. This is not a wild claim. It’s a historically continuous one.

    In a contest between Russia and the West, we want Russia to win. Because the alternative is that the West expands its empire to include the vast territory, resources, and peoples of Russia. This would be very bad for the whole world (except white people in the Empire). The evidence for that is plain to see. What Europe and its colonies have done to the world is beyond the largest evil the world has ever seen.

    In the end, we are forced into a brutal calculus - do we support the end of the Western empire or do we support the continuation of the Western empire? If we support the end of the Western empire, we have to acknowledge that we support the Empire’s enemies. And if we would rather oppose the Empire’s enemies, we have to acknowledge that we therefore support the expansion and maintenance of the empire. There is, unfortunately, no alternative.

    • Belly_Beanis [he/him]@hexbear.net
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      In the end, we are forced into a brutal calculus [rest of last paragraph]

      Adding on to this, Stalin, Mao, Kim Il Sung, and Ho Chi Minh had to make similar choices during WWII. Ally with liberals like France and even reactionaries (such as the KMT) to fight against the Axis Powers or fight the Axis alone while maintaining ideals, but risk other nations joining them (especially the UK and US).

      Materialism of their situation led them to joining the rest of the Allies, especially when it meant getting Lend-Lease deals or intelligence through their spy networks. Communist states of today find themselves in the same situation regarding Russia and Iran. Maintain ideological purity or actually have a shot at destroying capitalism. Furthermore, they can plant the seeds for future revolution by supporting reactionaries in their struggles against other reactionaries.

    • Maxxie@piefed.blahaj.zone
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      Like, I’m not gonna argue (we both agree it’d be pointless right) but as a woke, colonialism history-pilled leftist from CIS region, this is an insanely baffling take to me.

      • freagle@lemmy.ml
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        You can explain why you think it’s baffling. I don’t think it’s pointless

        • Maxxie@piefed.blahaj.zone
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          Because supporting a kleptocratic totalitarian police state just because it happens to fight a puppet of neo-colonial empire (that’s having a very tough time reining in its fascists) is what I imagine an anime villain doing, not actual people. Pardon my french.

          • freagle@lemmy.ml
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            Russia is no more a kleptocratic police state than any other. The reason your metaphor is “anime villain” is because your understanding is cartoonish. Russia is a real country with a long history and over 140 million people. It has a total all-in police budget of $47B. The USA has ~350M people and an all-in police budget of $237B.

            Russia’s per capita incarceration rate is significantly lower than the US. Russia recidivism rate is significantly lower than the US.

            Essentially on all metrics you could measure a police state, the US is worse than Russia.

            But of course, people will argue, just because the US is worse doesn’t mean that we can ignore Russia’s problems. And we don’t. We just understand that in a contest between Russia, who primarily has conflicts at its borders, and the US who primarily has conflicts in the periphery of the world where it does immense harm, we support any and all back pressure against the US even if that means a corrupt and violent state like Russia wins that contest.

            • Maxxie@piefed.blahaj.zone
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              I lived there, I know what its like. I also lived outside of it so it’s not just me being salty at my homeland, so I fully mean what I said.

              If you’re interested I can give you point by point of what differs 2026 russia from other countries.

              Or we can agree nobody is gonna convince anyone and go each others way, touching grass is always an option.

              • freagle@lemmy.ml
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                I don’t think it’s you being salty. I’m sure you can find point by point differences for everything, because every country is individually quite different. It doesn’t do anything about the macro perspective. Domestic policy is nearly irrelevant to the larger geopolitical contest.

                • Maxxie@piefed.blahaj.zone
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                  I mean if its truly irrelevant to you that the country you’re rooting for to win against the US puppet is a totalitarian hellhole, then we’re back to the anime villain territory.

                  What do you recon is gonna happen to the conquered neighbouring counties, and to the Russian citizens? That domestic policy you strategically ignore 🤷‍♀️

                  edit: by anime villain I don’t mean cartoonishly evil, I mean absolutist in a way a teenager trying to figure out what morality should they follow. Sorry if that sounds mean, if its any consolation that was me until like 30

          • Majestic@lemmy.ml
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            Please read Yogthos reply here: https://lemmy.ml/post/49690377/26558932

            It basically encapsulates most of the important reasoning.

            Why do we support Iran against the US? Objectively Iran is a theocracy that is socially backwards, it oppresses women, it oppresses LGBTQ people, it has a reactionary social character. Why then do we support it? Because it is the lesser evil. And importantly we would support it if it aggressed first against the zionist entity because it’s not about aggression or simplistic victim/aggressor dynamics but about liberation for the region and the world. And because Iran exists the way it does today because of western meddling and it cannot move beyond its present character as long as the west is there serving as a foil. Take away that, take away the zionist entity and the aggression and siege situation, allow development and these things have an opportunity to change.

            Anyways you use the term “totalitarian” which was itself invented by a Nazi apologist zionist to equate communism to Nazism. But why do you suppose that Russia is this but the west with its vast surveillance nets, its ICE, its camera systems, its global communications intercept network run by the eyes groups with NSA, GCHQ, and its brutal wars with atrocities against civilians across the middle east is not? I mean you can be arrested in Britain for the most trivial of things. You can be sent to prison for saying “I support Palestine Action” while peacefully protesting. How is it that these countries are not also “totalitarian” but Russia is? It cannot be and people only think that way because of propaganda. You have been blinded to the police state and brutality of the west while the brutality of Russia is hyped up, they hide the atrocities and human rights violations of the west and play down the problems while playing up, highlighting every instance and pounding the drums in your ears that scream “this is totalitarianism” to convince you of this fact.

            Kleptocracy is also a meaningless term to communists. It’s almost like a slur which is selectively applied to the designated “bad guys”. All capitalist nations are run under a dictatorship of capital and capitalists to serve their interests. This is true in Russia and it is true in the US. If some places are a little more brazen with their corruption and others a little better at hiding it behind “lobbying” that doesn’t change the essential character in our opinion. People starve and sleep on the streets in every major US city while the wealthy sit atop their 12th mansion and party with models and use private jets to private islands. The wealthy do things like rape children and get a slap on the wrist because prison would be bad for them. The wealthy run pedophile networks like Jeffery Epstein and the government buries the evidence and ensures no one is held to account while fabricating lies about what really happened. They crash the economy like in 2008 and the government bails them out while shafting the average person. Does that sound like “kleptocracy”? Because that’s the US. Russian capitalist elites are no different, they steal from the people, they live lavishly while others suffer, they commit crimes and use connections to get away with it. It’s no different.

        • Maxxie@piefed.blahaj.zone
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          (This is beside the point right but what the hell)

          From the theory perspective, not so much. Politically (afaik dont come at me) its main addition to Marxism was vangardism and that it kinda ruined the whole thing. I’m down with communism (private property is theft etc etc) but once you give a small group of people absolute power to drag the rest of the populace kicking and screaming into the bright future, then you get what we all got.

          • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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            The idea of a political vanguard was already present with Marx and Engels. Lenin advanced Marxism to the era of imperialism. Further, characterizing socialist democracy as “a small group of people [with] absolute power” is just not how socialist democracy or vanguards function in reality.

            • Maxxie@piefed.blahaj.zone
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              I’m not gonna object about the distinction between leninism and marxism (like I said, not very familiar), but every leninist\stalinist\maoist state turned out to have an insane concentration of power and authoritarian as hell. Less carnivore at times (Breznev, Deng) but still undeniably.

              And it’s honestly fine when some say “its the capitalists fault” cause a large part of that is true. Putting out all those fires and fighting all those interventions takes a lot of emergency orders.

              But then others say “its not how it was”, and at that point we just live in two different realities.

              All Im saying is I need to read a 50+ page proposal about how the next revolution will be different before I sign up.

              • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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                I don’t have 50+ pages on why the next revolution will be different. In many ways, the next revolution will be very similar, such as concentrating political power in the hands of the working classes, and the violent reaction towards counterrevolutionaries. This is generally true of revolution. We do live in a different time, so different conditions will lead to different results (for example, Eastern European socialism may look more like China today than the USSR). However, I do have evidence supporting how your characterization of the distribution of power doesn’t actually hold up to scrutiny.

                The soviet union was a dictatorship of the proletariat. The Soviets brutalized the capitalists, tsarists, fascists, landlords, and kulaks, while liberating the workers and peasants. The USSR had steady and consistent economic growth, and provided free, high quality education and healthcare, full employment, cheap or free housing, and fantastic infrastructure and city planning that still lasts to this day despite capitalism neglecting it. This rapid development resulted in dramatic democratization of society, reduced disparity, doubling of life expectancy, tripling of functional literacy rates to 99.9%, and much more. Living in the 1930s famine would not have been good, but it was the last major famine outside of wartime because the soviets ended famine in their countries.

                Literacy rates, societal guarantees in the 1936 constitution, reports on the healthcare system over time, and more are good sources for these claims.

                The USSR brought dramatic democratization to society. First-hand accounts from Statesian journalist Anna Louise Strong in her book This Soviet World describe soviet elections and factory councils in action. Statesian Pat Sloan even wrote Soviet Democracy to describe in detail the system the soviets had built for curious Statesians to read about, and today we have Professor Roland Boer’s Socialism in Power: On the History and Theory of Socialist Governance to reference.

                When it comes to social progressivism, the soviet union was among the best out of their peers, so instead we must look at who was actually repressed outside of the norm. In the USSR, it was the capitalist class, the kulaks, the fascists who were repressed. This is out of necessity for any socialist state. When it comes to working class freedoms, however, the soviet union represented a dramatic expansion. Soviet progressivism was documented quite well in Albert Syzmanski’s Human Rights in the Soviet Union.

                The truth, when judged based on historical evidence and contextualization, is that socialism was the best thing to happen to Russia in the last few centuries, and its absence has been devastating.

                Death rates spiked:

                And wealth disparity skyrocketed alongside the newly impoverished majority:

                Capitalism brought with it skyrocketing poverty rates, drug abuse, prostitution, homelessness, crime rates, and lowered life expectancy. An estimated 7 million people died due to the dissolution of socialism and reintroduction of capitalism, and this is why the large majority of post-soviet citizens regret its fall. A return to socialism is the only path forward for the post-soviet countries. A lot of Eastern European countries were swarmed with western capital during the destruction of socialism, which is what temporarily caused the rise of the far-right in these countries, but in time their problems will no longer be able to be ignored.

                • Regarding the death rate and life expectancy, I believe I mentioned this before but the graphs don’t support what you’re saying here. Death rates started climbing since the 1960s in Russia, and that trend was only reversed post-collapse (in your graph). And the supposed spike is not wildly out of line with that rising trend line since the 1960s. Furthermore, it seems to line up with a birth rate spike approx. 70 years earlier, which matches the life expectancy in Russia during that time. So it’s not clear that the collapse caused these extra deaths, or that there were just more people dying of natural causes/old age-related ailments because a large cohort of the population reached life expectancy at that time. The graph certainly does not seem to support the reading that it was due to the collapse. Birth rates also started climbing post-collapse (but that can be interpreted both positively as well as negatively so it’s harder to judge in isolation).

                  Similarly with life expectancy, trend line largely flatlined during the Soviet era after an initial strong climb (caused mostly by advancements in treatments for common age-related issues like heart diseases, same reason it climbed similarly in the West during this time), saw a dip post-collapse but then started rising again, for the first time in decades. That’s not because the Soviets did materially worse necessarily, it’s likely again due to advancements in medicine discovered in the West now spreading properly to the former Soviet states.

                  The collapse was certainly rough and had plenty of bad effects (see your income graphs for example, excellent example), don’t get me wrong. But death rate/life expectancy are imo very weak evidence of this, or can even be construed as counter-evidence.

  • davel [he/him]@lemmy.ml
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    Previously:

    Honest question from a non-communist, based on your reply here. Does one need to support Putin to be a Marxist?

    In a word, no. In a few more words, support for Russia (not Putin, as historical materialists don’t subscribe to great man theory) is only a partial, temporary, tactical one, in the context of imperialist liberation. Russia is still a capitalist state, though, so it’s a two stage strategy: first liberate colonized bourgeois states from colonizer states, and second revolution within those liberated bourgeois states.

    Russia is an interesting case: it has already liberated itself from the post-Soviet “shock therapy” neocolonizers. This occurred during Putin’s administration, which is why he is especially hated by the US. So now the support for Russia is in the context of keeping the colonizers from recolonizing it, and supporting Russia to the extent that it helps other states liberate themselves. But Russia isn’t trying to “liberate” Ukraine, at least not all of Ukraine. It’s trying to resolve the genocidal attacks on the people of the Donbas, and it’s trying to resolve the imperialist military expansion at its border.

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    For any people reading this, it’s basic but holy shit It’s seem too advanced for poor western brain: Communist doesn’t need to only support communists and doesn’t need to support everything that a communists do, it’s not RED vs BLUE for fuck sake, if it’s was no communist would support Palestine.

    • specimen@lemmy.world
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      However, a communist friend of mine did say that aligning with groups that oppose “Western Imperialism” was deliberately part of the the communist party’s strategy, as in, any effort that can undermine it should be supported, overlooking everything else. Hence why you won’t ever see them talk ill publicly of Iran, North Korea, Russia, China, etc.

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        The only reason people withold criticising those countries on some issues is because the West will use that as a pretext to genocide them. It’s like discussing “how to improve the Jewish community” during the Holocaust.

        Those things can wait until the countries have finally liberated themselves from Western imperialism. Without that they’ll never be able to take any serious steps before being moved back to the start.

        Coincidentally that’s also the reason most Westerners are conditioned to constantly talk ill of those countries. They have to liberate Iraq Afghanistan Syria Libya Iran

        An excellent article about this pertaining the Middle-East: Arabs and Muslims: The Real Victims of Modern Antisemitism

      • ZeroHora@lemmy.ml
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        5 days ago

        Yes, some communists do support some of that but not because of ideology but for a strategic reason, the part of “overlooking everything else” is completely bullshit.

        Hence why you won’t ever see them talk ill publicly of Iran, North Korea, Russia, China, etc.

        Press X to doubt.

        You won’t see communists to that much because liberals already do that endlessly for all the wrong reasons.

      • marxismtomorrow@lemmy.today
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        5 days ago

        That “communist” ‘friend’ either never heard of critical support, or vastly misunderstands it.

        I generally support Russia. And Ukraine. Because the more resources spent on the pointless war the fewer resources can be spent internally in those countries to resist popular revolution.

        It’s not overlooking the bad that either government does, it is simply supporting them and the actions they perform that happen to align with the wider goal of global revolution.

  • gecko@lemmy.ml
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    5 days ago

    to over simplify it , Russia is currently fighting the US empire and its cronies through a proxy and maybe directly in the future

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    5 days ago

    Russia is fighting an anti-fascist and anti-imperialist struggle and is aligned with China, Iran, Cuba and the rest of the global south that is pushing back against Western hegemonism, especially those under attack, hybrid or otherwise, by US and European imperialism.

    Blatant Western propaganda that contains lies, smears and misrepresentations of Russia will get downvoted because we do not appreciate being lied to and manipulated in service of murderous Nazism and the West’s warmongering imperialist agenda.

    You need to learn to be more skeptical and critical of your own media outlets which serve as propaganda mouthpieces for empire. Not everything that contradicts the paranoid and racist anti-Russia narrative you have been fed by them is “Kremlin propaganda”.

  • jackeroni@lemmy.ml
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    5 days ago

    blatantly spamming Kremlin propaganda

    Wowzers, sounds to me like you’re just another lib coming to stir pot 😁 just start spamming “tankie” already we all know thats where this is going.

    Support the anti-imperialism of russia or get off the communist instance and go back to reddit

    • Kenvexity@lemmy.mldeleted by creatorOP
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      5 days ago

      Coudln’t be more mistaken. I am also a socialist, yet I don’t support any imperialism, American, European, or Russian. Just because one type of imperialism is against the other, older type of imperialism does not make it right

      • freagle@lemmy.ml
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        5 days ago

        You are confused about what imperialism is. Imperialism is not having border disputes. Ukraine did not exist until the USSR created it, it’s name is literally “borderland” (ukrainia, krai = border). Russia has been involved in a number of military conflicts, all of them at its borders. The US, meanwhile has had 5 times as many military conflicts as Russia has had since 1992 and those conflicts are all not on the US border. They are not border disputes, they are extractive dominance projects.

        The RF has stated that the reason it took Crimea and the reason it is taking the Donbas is NATO expansion. You don’t have to believe them, but you do have to look at the history.

        Ukraine and NATO had no involvement in Ukraine until late 2013. In late 2013, NATO and Ukraine held their first join military exercise. A few months later, the Yanukovich government fled the country when a group of armed right wingers invaded parliament. That’s a coup, by definition. It was at that moment that Russia chose to take Crimea - not because it was proactively engaged in a imperialist ambitions but because it was reacting to the changing conditions on its border. Crimea specifically was strategically critical for Russian defense because of Sevastapol and the Black Sea. That was pure reactive chess, not imperialism.

        The SMO in the Donbas was stated to be for the same reason. NATO movements on the border had become indistinguishable from genuine military threats and Russian national security couldn’t survive that. If we look at the history, we see that from 2014 onward NATO and Ukraine greatly increased their military integration, with Ukraine cedeing more and more sovereignty over to NATO. It was a game of chicken, ultimately, and the US and Ukraine were both monitoring Russian reactions continuously because they were fully aware that what they were doing would eventually provoke Russia. They were very open about the fact that “security” did not include Russia and that any Russian security concerns could be dismissed out of hand. That’s exactly how you create security crises. And that’s what happened.

        Imperialism is not when one country responds to nuclear provocations at its border by partially invading another country and holding territory that has significant historical overlap with changing borders. Imperialism is when you use your economic dominance to create vassal states and then use their economic subjugation to create political subjugation and then use that political subjugation to expand your own military at the expense of the vassal’s sovereignty and security. Ukraine is in ruins because of American imperialist ambitions.

      • Meow@lemmy.ml
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        5 days ago

        I suggest reading “Imperialism the (current, at the time) Highest Stage of Capitalism” by Lenin, it might help give you a better idea of what Imperialism actually is, note: Russia is Capitalist right now, but not Imperialist. The only Imperialist countries in the world right now are all Capitalist ones, and they are all allied against the Global South. Any countries fighting back against this Imperialist Bloc are fighting an Anti-Imperialist fight.

        The Imperialist countries in question are the usual gang, US, UK, Canada, Germany, France, Japan, Australia, ETC. basically the countries you are taught are “good countries” are actually bad countries, and the countries you are taught are “bad countries” are actually good countries (give or take, overly simplestic)

        • Kenvexity@lemmy.mldeleted by creatorOP
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          5 days ago

          can you stop talking like you’re on fucking reddit and actually formulate a proper response?

          • jackeroni@lemmy.ml
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            😁 I formed a response that is appropriate for a pot-stirring liberal, you don’t want to ask a serious question you just want to get to the point where you go “ahha tankie!” so just go back to reddit and leave proper ML communists alone

            • Kenvexity@lemmy.mldeleted by creatorOP
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              okay great, i don’t think this conversation is going to be productive, so i wont respond to any more of your comments, have a good day

  • Labor Class@lemmy.world
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    3 days ago

    Russia is absolutely imperialist, not communist! China is economically imperialist too!

    • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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      Russia isn’t communist, but it isn’t imperialist, as it utterly lacks the finance capital required to do so. China is a socialist state with near total public control of finance, doesn’t participate in unequal exchange, doesn’t participate in neocolonialism, and doesn’t imperialize in general. Trade is not imperialism, nor are loans in general.

  • reluctant_squidd@lemmy.caBanned from community
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    I don’t think most people know what communism and socialism or capitalism are, nor do they care to learn.

    Communism = USSR

    Socialism = Capitalism

    Capitalism = good because of trickledown, which its nonsense

    I really believe it’s that simple.

    Edit: elaborated a bit

      • reluctant_squidd@lemmy.caBanned from community
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        I edited my comment to elaborate a bit more, probably while you were typing your response.

        Regardless, Communism != Russia. That was my point.

          • reluctant_squidd@lemmy.caBanned from community
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            5 days ago

            Except lemmy.ml apparently.

            If they are communists, but support Russia, then they either are not actually communists and don’t understand what that term actually means, or they are communists and don’t understand Russia.

            • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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              Communists critically support the Russian Federation, supporting it’s anti-imperialist role and strong allyship with socialist states, while seeking a return to socialism. Communists also support Palestine, Iran, etc, and these aren’t socialist either.

              • reluctant_squidd@lemmy.caBanned from community
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                My point is that people in general don’t understand these differences. You might. Others who read might, but the larger portion of people have no idea past the latest post-WW2 propaganda posters in the early to mid-1900s.

                Left wing, Communism = bad. Right wing, communism = good.

                Meanwhile very few people, including myself until recently, who actually care what they entail.

                What the propaganda machines force at people for these ideals vs. What they actually mean are very different.

                The people who benefit most from all the confusion is the Capitalists. Because either true communal to social living of any kind would threaten their reign. Funny that they are also the ones running the propaganda machines no?

                Must be a confidence…

                • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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                  I think you need to re-center yourself on which community we are talking about. OP is talking about Lemmy.ml, not the general western public. We need to understand this based on the audience, and Lemmy.ml is largely communist.

              • reluctant_squidd@lemmy.caBanned from community
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                ProleWiki is a collaborative, anti-imperialist, and Marxist–Leninist encyclopedia. Founded in September 2020, it provides information from a communist perspective to counter what its editors describe as liberal hegemony in Western society. It is not neutral, but instead acts as an expressly partisan educational resource for the international proletarian movement.”

                So your rebuttal to me applying non-partisan critical thinking to your delusion, is to quote a wiki full of delusion.

                Ok…

        • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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          The USSR was socialist and run by a communist party. The Russian Federation is capitalist, but critically supported by communists for its anti-imperialist role. That’s all it is.