In a discussion about the misrepresentation of political stances to further various agendas, it is not a whataboutism to point out a commonly held political hypocrisy.
If your primary concern had been its misrepresentation of your values, why didn’t you lead with that? The topic of .ml and hexbear was brought up as examples of people pushing the narrative in OP - hence why including a hypocrisy about the topic common in those communities is relevant.
A pretty common sentiment on hexbear is that Putin is someone Lenin would have shot. Opposing the war in ukraine as an inter-capitalist war is pretty common position as well. I don’t see the hypocrisy, just looks like someone attacking a made-up position
You, a .ml user, very literally express the sentiment in the OP in your first comment - you equate (red) and (blue) as warmongers you fail to see the difference between.
That the communities are far more pro-Russian than other spaces online is trivially easy to confirm - not perhaps to the flippant degree bassomitron presented, but it’s still true. And while you yourself may not be an example of that (although your primary stance appears to be that both Ukraine and Russia are equally wrong due to it being an inter-capitalist war and not a war of aggression by one capitalist state, which hmm. You also appear to have at one point earnestly believed the lies that there are “nazi gangs” running around Ukraine, which is not your fault but I hope you have reevaluated that belief since then), that’s not relevant to the above generalization.
I’ve written before on electoralism. There are a few issues with @Diva@lemmy.ml point of view here.
To be clear I am not saying that elections are the only thing that matter or the only thing that we should be doing; just that it is foolish to be ignoring them. Ideally, we should be having our own party, but in places where that is not possible, we should participate in primaries and vote as left as possible. Diva’s dismissiveness here is effectively saying we should step out of the way and let fascists have their way. Harm reduction is still important.
I will also just tag a comment here that voting is still a form of organizing and building credibility. If you have a movement and can persuade its members to vote then said members can also be persuaded to protest or strike. In the west voting carries little personal harm, so if people find that too tall then one can be sure that any higher order resistance might not happen.
At a minimum we should all be voting left in primaries to have statistics that there is in fact a left leaning populace that is being ignored. Protest votes and spoiled ballots are also good moves to do.
Diva is not wrong that the dems are also capitalists, but their apathy is discouraging leftist unity and changes to our material conditions.
Diva’s dismissiveness here is effectively saying we should step out of the way and let fascists have their way.
This is a false binary. I criticize democrat politicians for arming a genocide, that’s me demanding better from them because their actions on that front cost them the election and tens of thousands of people their lives.
Harm reduction is still important
Harm reduction for whom? did it include Palestinians getting bombed with US weapons? any of other victims of US foreign policy? Trump couldn’t operate with impunity as he is if the democrats didn’t set him up for it.
voting is still a form of organizing and building credibility
No it fucking isn’t. Organizing is organizing. Be it building dual power, mutual aid networks, unions, affinity groups, whatever. Voting is the bare minimum civic participation. Conflating them is a diversionary tactic designed to make people think they’ve done something groundbreaking by filling in a ballot.
If you have a movement and can persuade its members to vote then said members can also be persuaded to protest or strike
completely backwards. Movements don’t start with voting and scale up to strikes. they start with material organizing and sometimes engage in electoral politics tactically (ideally with an actual workers party)
At a minimum we should all be voting left in primaries
Funny, did this in the 2024 ‘primaries’ with uncommitted votes; all warning signs were completely ignored. surely if we keep trying the same things will work out eventually.
their apathy is discouraging leftist unity
I’m not apathetic, I’m actually quite involved in irl organizing (actual organizing, not electoral). I’m just not particularly invested in the democratic party.
For many vulnerable people. Its good that you are unaffected by the election results, but please check your privilege.
Voting is the bare minimum civic participation.
A bare minimum that mls cannot be bothered to do. As such they have no credibility to doing higher level activity.
Funny, did this in the 2024 ‘primaries’ with uncommitt…
Are you aware that there have been elections before that? We should have been organized long before. J Edgar Hoover thanks you for your contributions. You are the leftist he would wish to see. Disorganized and unwilling to take actions.
I’m not apathetic, I’m actually quite involved in irl organizing (actual organizing, not electoral). I’m just not particularly invested in the democratic party.
Right, you cared so much you couldn’t spare an afternoon every two years? Maybe skip the shit posting a few days to get some of the time to do so. Not all of us are so privileged as to not care about the harm reduction at the least.
Its good that you are unaffected by the election results
I’m actually pretty fucking affected by them, I’m a trans woman and plenty fucking familiar with economic precarity. I’ve been having my prescriptions fucked with on and off ever since Trump got in office, my insurance even stopped covering pretty much every formulation of estrogen other than ones used by cis women
You’re lecturing me about privilege because you don’t like how I feel about your preferred party of genocide enablers.
A bare minimum that mls cannot be bothered to do.
I’ve voted in pretty much every fucking election on and off year in my adult life, plus I’m an anarchist.
J Edgar Hoover thanks you for your contributions
It’s rich accusing me of being a fed/useful idiot while identifying voting for the democratic party as the truly useful activity.
You couldn’t spare an afternoon every two years?
Once more, I’ve fucking voted every year for over two decades. I even vote in municipal elections, those happen on odd numbered years.
feel free to continue attacking straw targets though I guess.
As do .ml and hexbear.
Excuse me for not seeing a credible difference between genocidal warmonger (blue) and genocidal warmonger (red)
You’re not excused until you learn to post comments that aren’t mind numbingly stupid.
Eww, you’re from .ml. Remind me to put on gloves next time before touching your comments.
But Putin attacking countries is fiiiiine. Ukraine and Western propaganda and all that.
firstly isn’t that whataboutism?
either way I’m opposed to inter-capitalist wars and despots like Putin.
In a discussion about the misrepresentation of political stances to further various agendas, it is not a whataboutism to point out a commonly held political hypocrisy.
I mean it is a misrepresentation of my political stance, plus the topic was warmongers running our government and they were like ‘what about russia’
If your primary concern had been its misrepresentation of your values, why didn’t you lead with that? The topic of .ml and hexbear was brought up as examples of people pushing the narrative in OP - hence why including a hypocrisy about the topic common in those communities is relevant.
A pretty common sentiment on hexbear is that Putin is someone Lenin would have shot. Opposing the war in ukraine as an inter-capitalist war is pretty common position as well. I don’t see the hypocrisy, just looks like someone attacking a made-up position
You, a .ml user, very literally express the sentiment in the OP in your first comment - you equate (red) and (blue) as warmongers you fail to see the difference between.
That the communities are far more pro-Russian than other spaces online is trivially easy to confirm - not perhaps to the flippant degree bassomitron presented, but it’s still true. And while you yourself may not be an example of that (although your primary stance appears to be that both Ukraine and Russia are equally wrong due to it being an inter-capitalist war and not a war of aggression by one capitalist state, which hmm. You also appear to have at one point earnestly believed the lies that there are “nazi gangs” running around Ukraine, which is not your fault but I hope you have reevaluated that belief since then), that’s not relevant to the above generalization.
(edit: clarity)
Q. E. D.
Where’s the lie though
I’ve written before on electoralism. There are a few issues with @Diva@lemmy.ml point of view here.
To be clear I am not saying that elections are the only thing that matter or the only thing that we should be doing; just that it is foolish to be ignoring them. Ideally, we should be having our own party, but in places where that is not possible, we should participate in primaries and vote as left as possible. Diva’s dismissiveness here is effectively saying we should step out of the way and let fascists have their way. Harm reduction is still important.
I will also just tag a comment here that voting is still a form of organizing and building credibility. If you have a movement and can persuade its members to vote then said members can also be persuaded to protest or strike. In the west voting carries little personal harm, so if people find that too tall then one can be sure that any higher order resistance might not happen.
At a minimum we should all be voting left in primaries to have statistics that there is in fact a left leaning populace that is being ignored. Protest votes and spoiled ballots are also good moves to do.
Diva is not wrong that the dems are also capitalists, but their apathy is discouraging leftist unity and changes to our material conditions.
This is a false binary. I criticize democrat politicians for arming a genocide, that’s me demanding better from them because their actions on that front cost them the election and tens of thousands of people their lives.
Harm reduction for whom? did it include Palestinians getting bombed with US weapons? any of other victims of US foreign policy? Trump couldn’t operate with impunity as he is if the democrats didn’t set him up for it.
No it fucking isn’t. Organizing is organizing. Be it building dual power, mutual aid networks, unions, affinity groups, whatever. Voting is the bare minimum civic participation. Conflating them is a diversionary tactic designed to make people think they’ve done something groundbreaking by filling in a ballot.
completely backwards. Movements don’t start with voting and scale up to strikes. they start with material organizing and sometimes engage in electoral politics tactically (ideally with an actual workers party)
Funny, did this in the 2024 ‘primaries’ with uncommitted votes; all warning signs were completely ignored. surely if we keep trying the same things will work out eventually.
I’m not apathetic, I’m actually quite involved in irl organizing (actual organizing, not electoral). I’m just not particularly invested in the democratic party.
For many vulnerable people. Its good that you are unaffected by the election results, but please check your privilege.
A bare minimum that mls cannot be bothered to do. As such they have no credibility to doing higher level activity.
Are you aware that there have been elections before that? We should have been organized long before. J Edgar Hoover thanks you for your contributions. You are the leftist he would wish to see. Disorganized and unwilling to take actions.
Right, you cared so much you couldn’t spare an afternoon every two years? Maybe skip the shit posting a few days to get some of the time to do so. Not all of us are so privileged as to not care about the harm reduction at the least.
I’m actually pretty fucking affected by them, I’m a trans woman and plenty fucking familiar with economic precarity. I’ve been having my prescriptions fucked with on and off ever since Trump got in office, my insurance even stopped covering pretty much every formulation of estrogen other than ones used by cis women
You’re lecturing me about privilege because you don’t like how I feel about your preferred party of genocide enablers.
I’ve voted in pretty much every fucking election on and off year in my adult life, plus I’m an anarchist.
It’s rich accusing me of being a fed/useful idiot while identifying voting for the democratic party as the truly useful activity.
Once more, I’ve fucking voted every year for over two decades. I even vote in municipal elections, those happen on odd numbered years.
feel free to continue attacking straw targets though I guess.
Seems you didn’t read my opening statement: