Thanks for your incredibly beautiful/interesting response- tbh I’d really love to talk with you more on the subject, and I’d love to chat about other things you mentioned as well like religion/mythology/philosophy, though I myself doubt I can contribute much more than a shallow idea of most of it.
CW: experiences with intolerance, my assumptions or parents' assumptions
Admittedly, part of my interest in talking further also is to learn but also to perhaps help with my own family (though those who matter are at least good and accepting now, and my dad is a dipshit… though even then I am still curious)
I must admit, I wasn’t aware that there were churches- in full communion/orthodoxy(?) with the Vatican at that, which would genuinely accept LGBT people and welcome them/give respect to their identities and accept them living their lives as they are rather than suppressing themselves, without saying they were “living in sin.”
Personally, I can really understand the appeal of Christianity especially in its origins as a grassroots, progressive religion- it took me a while to come to such a point of measured understanding and even critical appreciation rather than hatred, in particular regarding Catholicism, after leaving the church due to my personal history of both childhood/family trauma and later familial rejection. And I get where your appreciation comes from in regards to the theological aspects, when you describe them I can see an appeal to them as well and am aware of and understand the concepts (they were rather drilled into my head) even if I never particularly focused on them when I was a Catholic myself (I was a angry kid, religion was rather my vent, and seeing what it did to my family also made it less likely for me to associate positive belief other than cultural kinship and ethical foundations with it).
Catholicism, or former Catholicism anyways, certainly still plays an immense role in my mentality and principles, for better and for worse (both). And I have an appreciation and complicated relationship for, and grounding in the history, culture, and traditions- the latter two typically from a safe distance, admittedly.
As for the cultural connection with Haitians and Latin-Americans- that’s another good point, and part of what I guessed was likely a reason. I’m really glad you have found such community and connections. Beyond my immediate family and paternal relatives I don’t have quite the same bond (ethnic Chinese and on both sides it is a product of mostly recent missionary evangelization - though it probably runs rather deep in my paternal grandma’s family history). But I’m glad you have it, and I certainly have felt kinship at times due to the shared- understanding of sorts, even as an ex-Catholic, with Latino communities in particular (haven’t really met any Haitians that I know of).
I’m happy to talk, although how useful you find it might vary.
I don’t want to give off the impression I’m very educated, I’m rather stupid.
spoiler
Most of the supportive churches I am aware of are in large metropolis in the US, Britain, and Germany.
But yeah, they are in full communion.
There might be some tension, especially with conservative/traditional wings of the Church, but there isn’t really a threat of excommunication or anything like that for those involved.
I’m sorry you went through all that.
Too many have been hurt and are still being hurt.
The communal aspect is something I really appreciate, but not something I really live in full.
I mostly isolate myself from other people, and even God, it’s something I’m trying to work on.
It doesn’t have to be useful, it’s also just very interesting and refreshing hearing your different experiences. And education has nothing to do with intelligence or how interesting you are nor how much you have to offer- though if need be we can be stupid together (I’m also a lump)
spoiler
I wouldn’t be surprised if there is some, or at least one such church where I am then (large metropolis… Klanada). Growing up I definitely saw and was around the more conservative, traditional wings (and in regards to my family as a kid- the also pretty cultlike wings).
I wouldn’t have expected excommunication (though I’m not a Catholic anymore), but for instance I’d be surprised if- though hearing your experiences perhaps it is different in some places- you were, if not not welcome, prevented from receiving communion, etc. In truth I wouldn’t have expected people to be able to simply enter Catholic churches presenting as other than their assigned-at-birth gender, or with their gay partners, etc. either.
There’s nothing to apologize for on your end, FWIW. Nowadays I’ve made my peace with it somewhat, but more than that- as with all things, religion always wound up being just another excuse or avenue for people (like my family) to spiral if you ask me. Not to excuse things for the institution and legacy itself, but it certainly had nothing to do with you and if anything it’s nice hearing of these positive developments, as tense as they may be.
As for the communal aspect- outside of religion as well, it’s something I’m struggling with. Socializing and belonging in general can be hard as hell, if you ever want to chat on it I’d be glad to for anything. Personally while I’ve not delved much into it and don’t think I’d ever call myself an overly spiritually-inclined person but myself- sometimes wanting some connection or grounding in the world (while being an agnostic) I’ve been thinking about perhaps delving into Shenism (“Chinese folk religion/s”), as well as Buddhism which I have had some interaction with from my mom’s side and which has helped me greatly in secular ways as well. And- while it took a while for me to return to some levels of appreciation in it, I still have a great- respect or grounding, even if I don’t think I’d say I believe in the theology behind it, for the idealized/original character, principles and the grassroots history of the church as I described.
And I can 100% relate to that isolation “even from God” (using the caps in respect to yours/your belief, anyways). Or that isolation from- the natural world, from some metaphysical, perhaps nonexistent or otherwise intangible and idealized state of being. I probably isolate myself from myself (though I get caught up in my thoughts a ton as well) by distractions or sleeping as well I guess. But I get where you’re coming from and would be glad to talk (or just chat stupid stuff) if you want. Been trying (and I suppose somewhat doing?) to connect with other humans at least and in the past… ehh few days I feel I’ve been gradually reviving in that regard, perhaps. But anyways yeah (I ramble, sorry). I’d be glad to talk
Thanks for your incredibly beautiful/interesting response- tbh I’d really love to talk with you more on the subject, and I’d love to chat about other things you mentioned as well like religion/mythology/philosophy, though I myself doubt I can contribute much more than a shallow idea of most of it.
CW: experiences with intolerance, my assumptions or parents' assumptions
Admittedly, part of my interest in talking further also is to learn but also to perhaps help with my own family (though those who matter are at least good and accepting now, and my dad is a dipshit… though even then I am still curious)
I must admit, I wasn’t aware that there were churches- in full communion/orthodoxy(?) with the Vatican at that, which would genuinely accept LGBT people and welcome them/give respect to their identities and accept them living their lives as they are rather than suppressing themselves, without saying they were “living in sin.”
Personally, I can really understand the appeal of Christianity especially in its origins as a grassroots, progressive religion- it took me a while to come to such a point of measured understanding and even critical appreciation rather than hatred, in particular regarding Catholicism, after leaving the church due to my personal history of both childhood/family trauma and later familial rejection. And I get where your appreciation comes from in regards to the theological aspects, when you describe them I can see an appeal to them as well and am aware of and understand the concepts (they were rather drilled into my head) even if I never particularly focused on them when I was a Catholic myself (I was a angry kid, religion was rather my vent, and seeing what it did to my family also made it less likely for me to associate positive belief other than cultural kinship and ethical foundations with it).
Catholicism, or former Catholicism anyways, certainly still plays an immense role in my mentality and principles, for better and for worse (both). And I have an appreciation and complicated relationship for, and grounding in the history, culture, and traditions- the latter two typically from a safe distance, admittedly.
As for the cultural connection with Haitians and Latin-Americans- that’s another good point, and part of what I guessed was likely a reason. I’m really glad you have found such community and connections. Beyond my immediate family and paternal relatives I don’t have quite the same bond (ethnic Chinese and on both sides it is a product of mostly recent missionary evangelization - though it probably runs rather deep in my paternal grandma’s family history). But I’m glad you have it, and I certainly have felt kinship at times due to the shared- understanding of sorts, even as an ex-Catholic, with Latino communities in particular (haven’t really met any Haitians that I know of).
I’m happy to talk, although how useful you find it might vary.
I don’t want to give off the impression I’m very educated, I’m rather stupid.
spoiler
Most of the supportive churches I am aware of are in large metropolis in the US, Britain, and Germany.
But yeah, they are in full communion.
There might be some tension, especially with conservative/traditional wings of the Church, but there isn’t really a threat of excommunication or anything like that for those involved.
I’m sorry you went through all that.
Too many have been hurt and are still being hurt.
The communal aspect is something I really appreciate, but not something I really live in full.
I mostly isolate myself from other people, and even God, it’s something I’m trying to work on.
It doesn’t have to be useful, it’s also just very interesting and refreshing hearing your different experiences. And education has nothing to do with intelligence or how interesting you are nor how much you have to offer- though if need be we can be stupid together (I’m also a lump)
spoiler
I wouldn’t be surprised if there is some, or at least one such church where I am then (large metropolis… Klanada). Growing up I definitely saw and was around the more conservative, traditional wings (and in regards to my family as a kid- the also pretty cultlike wings).
I wouldn’t have expected excommunication (though I’m not a Catholic anymore), but for instance I’d be surprised if- though hearing your experiences perhaps it is different in some places- you were, if not not welcome, prevented from receiving communion, etc. In truth I wouldn’t have expected people to be able to simply enter Catholic churches presenting as other than their assigned-at-birth gender, or with their gay partners, etc. either.
There’s nothing to apologize for on your end, FWIW. Nowadays I’ve made my peace with it somewhat, but more than that- as with all things, religion always wound up being just another excuse or avenue for people (like my family) to spiral if you ask me. Not to excuse things for the institution and legacy itself, but it certainly had nothing to do with you and if anything it’s nice hearing of these positive developments, as tense as they may be.
As for the communal aspect- outside of religion as well, it’s something I’m struggling with. Socializing and belonging in general can be hard as hell, if you ever want to chat on it I’d be glad to for anything. Personally while I’ve not delved much into it and don’t think I’d ever call myself an overly spiritually-inclined person but myself- sometimes wanting some connection or grounding in the world (while being an agnostic) I’ve been thinking about perhaps delving into Shenism (“Chinese folk religion/s”), as well as Buddhism which I have had some interaction with from my mom’s side and which has helped me greatly in secular ways as well. And- while it took a while for me to return to some levels of appreciation in it, I still have a great- respect or grounding, even if I don’t think I’d say I believe in the theology behind it, for the idealized/original character, principles and the grassroots history of the church as I described.
And I can 100% relate to that isolation “even from God” (using the caps in respect to yours/your belief, anyways). Or that isolation from- the natural world, from some metaphysical, perhaps nonexistent or otherwise intangible and idealized state of being. I probably isolate myself from myself (though I get caught up in my thoughts a ton as well) by distractions or sleeping as well I guess. But I get where you’re coming from and would be glad to talk (or just chat stupid stuff) if you want. Been trying (and I suppose somewhat doing?) to connect with other humans at least and in the past… ehh few days I feel I’ve been gradually reviving in that regard, perhaps. But anyways yeah (I ramble, sorry). I’d be glad to talk