Edit for clarity: I’m not asking why the Tankie/Anarchist grudge exist. I’m curious about what information sources - mentors, friends, books, TV, cultural osmosis, conveys that information to people. Where do individuals encounter this information and how does it become important to them. It’s an anthropology question about a contemporary culture rather than a question about the history of leftism.

I’ve been thinking about this a bit lately. Newly minted Anarchists have to learn to hate Lenin and Stalin and whoever else they have a grudge against. They have to encounter some materials or teacher who teaches them “Yeah these guys, you have to hate these guys and it has to be super-personal like they kicked your dog. You have to be extremely angry about it and treat anyone who doesn’t disavow them as though they’re literally going to kill you.”

Like there’s some process of enculturation there, of being brought in to the culture of anarchism, and there’s a process where anarchists learn this thing that all (most?) anarchists know and agree on.

Idk, just anthropology brain anthropologying. Cause like if someone or something didn’t teach you this why would you care so much?

    • roux [he/him, they/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
      7·
      7 days ago

      I think this is the best, concise answer. To expand, in the States, up until college, we are taught that Stalin and Mao were ruthless authoritarian dictators without any real further explanation. I mean it’s the same propaganda as us getting taught that the US won the second world war, the Vietnam war, and the Korean war. We are taught that the cold war war us versus the evil Russian Empire, and so on.

      So I think, depending on how someone is radicalized, they can go to the far left, skipping some crucial steps along the way, and adopt the anarchist aesthetic while still suffering from the colloquial “liberal brainworms”. I’ve read a bit of anarchist theory after hitting my foundational goal with Marxist theory, and outside of the tenets of mutual aid, self association, and body autonomy, anarchist theory refers to any ruler as a Statist and Authoritarian. I know authoritarian doesn’t really have any real meaning anymore since any person that is the leader of a country, or any group that rules a country is de facto authoritarian and totalitarian. It just comes with the package and is an easy way of painting any ruler with a broad stroke(cult of personality, filthy rich, brutal tyrant that doesn’t care about the working poor, etc). I’ve seen some text refer to someone like Stalin as a Statist, but that’s just a anarchist term that means “guy in charge”, but I’ve seen several instances online where a reddit anarchist might use it as an insult, and with my reading I never took it to mean that. It’s just a term that suggests that this person rules a state. In this sense, saying “an authoritarian state” becomes redundant, further removing any meaning from the word.

      Below is my own personal reflections. I’m still learning.

      I’m actually currently “in my anarchist era” because I float a bit between Marxism and Anarchism as I try to further ground myself in my own understanding, but also as pointless as it may seem, I’m still very sympathetic to the concepts of Leftist Unity(I for sure still suffer from a bit of idealism, I’m fully aware of this). But anecdotally I think I’m a bit of “special snowflake” since I’ve read Marxist literature first before my initial visit to anarchist theory. I’m gonna stand with any ML struggle and any Anarchist struggle because I think it’s the right thing to do. But at the end of the day, I think the hate from anarchist just comes from younger kids that are new and just haven’t read the theory. They should also read Marxist theory too imo. Same goes for Marxist reading Anarchist theory. I don’t think we all have to agree on it but I think understanding where one-another is coming from will go along way in the near and further future for organizing and agitating.

      Sorry if this deviated too far from the discussion sadness

      • Frank [he/him, he/him]@hexbear.netOPEnglish
        9·
        7 days ago

        Hey, look - i’ve said this before and i’ll keep saying it - as global warming and the collapse of the us empire continue i believe that conditions will favor anarchist praxis of mutual aid and the devouring of the state from within. It doesn’t seem like a revolution of any form of proletariat is in the cards in the west and i think we badly need to build a synthesis suited for the 20th century. With nation states and the global economy poised to collapse communal anarchist theory is going to be important.

        We need people who can speak to both theories. You’re doing important work.

        • roux [he/him, they/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
          5·
          7 days ago

          I’m actually getting to the stage that I am at due to seeing what I sort of dubbed “crisis anarchism”. Basically seeing mutual aid stations prop up during CHAZ in Seattle, and the college Palestine protests. Anarchists can really get things moving in moments of crisis and I think we can learn from that and work with them. Regardless of where I personally stand in my theory and praxis, I look at both Anarchists and Marxists as allies.