There’s a post about it.

That post explicitly says it’s not a place for debate or participation from users of other instances.

I’d like to respect that but I think events like this need debate and discussion because it helps to develop and evolve the culture of lemmy and the fediverse in general.

The post says:

This post is “FYI only” for blahaj lemmy members. It is not a debate, and is not intended for non blahaj lemmy users to weigh in and offer opinions.

I recently received reports of a feddit.uk user espousing transphobia. Specifically, this was a feddit.uk user refusing to use the word cis, repeating the “adult human female” dog whistle, and claiming that trans women are not women. I approached a member of the feddit.uk admin team and raised my concerns and sought clarification of their stance on posts like this, where the transphobia is mostly dogwhistles, and “civil disagreement” on the validity of trans folk.

I was told by the feddit.uk admin that their preferred response is this kind of transphobia is to “sort it out through discussion and voting”. However, the comments in question are currently more upvoted than downvoted, and little “sorting out” has occurred. The posts remain in place.

At this point, the admin stopped responding to my messages despite being active elsewhere on lemmy. When it became clear they were ignoring my messages and had no intention of removing the posts in question, I made the decision to defederate the instance.

I know some folk agree with the feddit.uk admins approach of pushback through discussion and voting, but this instance is not designed to be that kind of space. Blahaj lemmy is meant to be a place where we can avoid the rampant transphobia universally visible on nearly every other social media platform, and where we can exist without needing to debate our right to do so.

  • Samskara@sh.itjust.works
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    12 hours ago

    Ada‘s post contains no details or reasoning. Linking to the offending content would make this appear more deliberate.

    The offending content was apparently this.

    A woman is an adult female. A transwoman is an adult female who used to be male. It’s not difficult to grasp that they are different things. You can admit that and still believe that transwomen should be treated with dignity like anyone else.

    Personally I don’t give a shit what bathroom people use or what they want to be referred to. I’ll go along with whatever… But a woman and a transwoman are different things, and it’s disingenuous to pretend otherwise. Always have been different things and always will be, no matter what the law states, now or in the future.

    Kier’s words are still not transphobia. There is no fear, dislike, prejudice, discrimination, harassment, or violence in his statement. The scream of ‘transphobia’ is thrown around too much for anyone who disagrees with a narrow definition. Any disagreement is labelled as hate, and it’s silly.

    Should a transwoman have the same rights and respect and opportunity as a woman (as per the legal definition)? Absolutely. Are they the same? No, they are not. Is that a hateful bigoted viewpoint worthy of scorn? I don’t believe so.

    I don’t use the term cis. I use the term woman and you knew exactly what I meant. A blonde woman is a description of a woman’s hair colour and is a semantic-based response that is nothing to do with this point. You know this; it’s a foolish riposte that’s nothing at all to do with the clear and simple fact that a woman who used to be a man is not the same thing as a (cis) woman.

    I can call it a woman who used to have a penis or a woman who used to be a man if you want me to be pedantic about it. Nothing to do with hair colour, or skin colour, or anything else except previously being a biological male and now identifying as a woman.

    ‘adult human female’ is not a dog whistle. It’s a legal and common-sense definition that you clearly understand but are trying to make out to be hate for some reason. I am not denying the legitimacy of transwomen; nor is Keir.

    Transwomen and (cis) women are different things. And Transmen and (cis) men are different things. They have different names, which you yourself use for a reason. That reason being they are not the same thing. This is exactly the same as saying transwomen are not women, because they are not. They are transwomen.

    It’s pretty simple.

    Copied from here

    • Skiluros@sh.itjust.works
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      6 hours ago

      Blahaj.zone can do whatever they want, but to try and imply that the admins of feddit.uk (and users) are transphobic over this text is madness.

      Respect to feddit.uk admins for not bowing to down to bullying.

    • Shayeta@feddit.org
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      11 hours ago

      Wtf, this isn’t hate. This is someone stating their perspective with no harmful intent. If anything that comment is a great starter to a serious discussion on the topic.

      If Ada doesn’t want such content on their instance they have the right to defederade and I fully support their right to it, no matter the reason (it is their instance after all).

      I can understand why someone would disagree with that comment, but calling it transphobia or hate speech?

      • Norah (pup/it/she)@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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        9 hours ago

        The part that becomes transphobic is the insistence that the definitions are “transwoman” and “woman”. A trans woman (note the space) is a type of woman, no one denies that. It’d be like using the term “blondewoman” and insisting that they are different from every other kind of “woman”, and not included in womanhood.

        Ada also pretty clearly stated why she didn’t link to the offending content: 
        https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/comment/14101300 in that she didn’t want to start a brigade, which I honestly think is pretty upstanding behaviour on her part. As well, I don’t see where the actual content has been linked, so I think the commenter above you might be full of shit, unless they can give a source.

        I’m not going to participate further in this circus after this comment though. The second I saw Ada’s post the other day, I knew there’d be a PTB post with people either ignorantly, or knowingly pushing transphobic viewpoints. (Edit: I actually amend my statement. This comment thread was right at the top for me, but upon further reading people here have been really chill. Genuinely, thanks all for understanding that Blahaj is first and foremost a place for trans people to feel safe above any other concerns) It’s the ignorance that gets to me honestly, as if we don’t live in a world today where the majority of people aren’t susceptible to the overt fascism of Mussolini and Hitler anymore. Fascists, and other bad actors, realised they had to become smarter and more subtle with the way they spread hatred. They sow plausible-sounding doubt about transgender healthcare, like saying trans “children” are put on hormones when that’s only ever offered at 16 or older, or that these same “children” are given surgeries at 16 when no healthcare systems allow under 18 year olds to get surgery, and in fact many block trans adults from those life-saving procedures. It’s designed to be “death by a thousand cuts” because straight up attacking trans folks right to exist will cause most people to push back against that.

        Let me just ask you (the general you, not the person I’m replying to) what exactly the need for defining trans women as not biologically female actually is? Is it to stop us from using the women’s bathroom? Well, if your goal is to reduce the amount of people sexually assaulted, that will surely fail, and I shouldn’t have to explain why. Is it so that cis women can get the medical care they need, that differs from trans women? That’s not a problem that exists, nor would most trans women deny that cis women have their own medical needs, when we obviously have our own too. Is it to stop trans women from going to DV shelters? Do you really think a woman that’s being terrorised to the level of leaving her home is going to purposefully harm other women?

        What is the actual need for defining trans women separately then? Why are certain people so obsessed by this need? The best answer I’ve got is the fact that the US executive government has decided to define them separately, and under the cover of that, they not only have stopped issuing passports with trans folks chosen gender marker, but have stopped issuing them in their gender assigned at birth as well. Let me repeat for you, trans folks Are Not Able To Get A Passport At All Anymore In The United States thanks to this manufactured debate around biological sex. I shudder to think about what comes next after an act like that.

        • Shayeta@feddit.org
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          6 hours ago

          The part that becomes transphobic is the insistence that the definitions are “transwoman” and “woman”. A trans woman (note the space) is a type of woman, no one denies that. It’d be like using the term “blondewoman” and insisting that they are different from every other kind of “woman”, and not included in womanhood.

          I see, I wasn’t aware of this perspective.

          Ada also pretty clearly stated why she didn’t link to the offending content: https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/comment/14101300 in that she didn’t want to start a brigade, which I honestly think is pretty upstanding behaviour on her part.

          Not trans specific, and not really related, but I disagree with this view. Brigades are bad, they are the internet version of a street brawl and produce nothing of value. What I dislike is that “stopping brigades” usually also prevents actual discourse.

          Let me just ask you (the general you, not the person I’m replying to) what exactly the need for defining trans women as not biologically female actually is?

          What is the actual need for defining trans women separately then? Why are certain people so obsessed by this need?

          I can only speak for myself: Since forever when someone uses the word “woman” in a conversation it is implicitly understood that they are referring to a cis woman. What rubs me the wrong way is that it feels like someone is forcefully trying to change that implicit meaning to mean “cis woman or trans woman” which would then necessitate referring to a cis woman as a “cis woman” instead of simply a “woman”, which in turn feels like I’m being forced to change the way I speak. I personally don’t think this is the case, but it is what it feels like. To me trans women are women as in, included in womanhood, and when I say the word “woman” in a casual conversation I’m implicitly referring to a cis woman.

          • Norah (pup/it/she)@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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            6 hours ago

            To me trans women are women as in, included in womanhood, and when I say the word “woman” in a casual conversation I’m implicitly referring to a cis woman.

            These two statements are an oxymoron though, you can’t really have it both ways. So if it “feels like” you’re being forced, that’s merely because social conventions push us to be clear with our language choices. It really isn’t any different from situations where you might have to say a “straight woman” or a “white woman” because it’s expedient to distinguish that group separately.

            Also though, I wonder what situations you’re even referring to? If you start talking about women that can get pregnant (and just say “women”), as a matter of course I’m not going to scold you for not defining it as “non-menopausal women that haven’t had a hysterectomy”, nor would most people. So, have you been scolded for something similar where you meant cis women? If not, this feels like it’s just a strawman, a situation that doesn’t really come up, but is easy to try and win arguments over.

        • Skiluros@sh.itjust.works
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          8 hours ago

          Ada also pretty clearly stated why she didn’t link to the offending content: https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/comment/14101300 in that she didn’t want to start a brigade, which I honestly think is pretty upstanding behaviour on her part. As well, I don’t see where the actual content has been linked, so I think the commenter above you might be full of shit, unless they can give a source.

          How do you know the poster is full of shit? You didn’t even ask for the source.

          Also defederating from an instance while not including the actual offending content is not very transparent.

          • Norah (pup/it/she)@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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            8 hours ago

            How do you know the poster is full of shit? You didn’t even ask for the source.

            Because no one, not even the admins of feddit.uk, has stated the offending comment directly. It would be weird for a user of a different instance to be the only one in the know.

            Also defederating from an instance while not including the actual offending content is not very transparent.

            In this case, transparency has taken a backseat to preventing brigading, which I accept as a perfectly valid reason not to disclose. Considering I’m a user of the instance, my opinion here is actually important, because it’s not her job to be transparent with users elsewhere. Not even feddit.uk’s users, the admins there have the context and if they decide to share it is up to them.

            • Skiluros@sh.itjust.works
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              8 hours ago

              But you didn’t ask the user how he got it! Surely before claiming that he is full of shit, you could have spent ~10 seconds typing out, “what is your source?” I didn’t see you do that in piefed thread.

              Not even feddit.uk’s users, the admins there have the context and if they decide to share it is up to them.

              BLZ can do whatever, but others are also allowed to make their own conclusions about the possible reasons for the lack of transparency.

              • Norah (pup/it/she)@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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                7 hours ago

                They’re the only person in this thread trying to sow division and call the Blahaj admins decision into question, besides you of course. I don’t need to assume the best intentions in that case, and can draw my own conclusions. As a trans person, if I gave everyone the benefit of the doubt all of the time, I’d expose myself to far too much hatred.

                If you want to choose to believe the reason is anything other than “to prevent brigading” than that’s up to you. feddit.uk admins seem to know the context, like I said before, so I don’t see how Ada could be lying here…

                • Skiluros@sh.itjust.works
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                  7 hours ago

                  You’re welcome to assume bad faith or not bother, it’s your right.

                  The fact remains, you don’t know whether Pondercat is full of shit or not. You don’t have any evidence and you are not interested in interacting with Pondercat.

                  "Prevent brigading” is irrelevant at this point, the text is out, so you cannot prevent brigading if it’s real. So the question about transparency remains.

                  Pointing out clear lapses in logic is not “sowing division”.

                  • Norah (pup/it/she)@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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                    6 hours ago

                    Have you actually followed the link above? It says “I think these are [the comments]”.

                    Pointing out clear lapses in logic is not “sowing division”.

                    I never said anything here was “sowing division”, please attribute that quote properly? (Edit: Apologies, I got my comment threads confused) While you’re at it, care to explain how preventing brigading is “a clear lapse of logic” because there are plenty of other people in this thread that understood and even lauded that decision. Or don’t bother? I’m not going to keep engaging with you.