That post explicitly says it’s not a place for debate or participation from users of other instances.
I’d like to respect that but I think events like this need debate and discussion because it helps to develop and evolve the culture of lemmy and the fediverse in general.
The post says:
This post is “FYI only” for blahaj lemmy members. It is not a debate, and is not intended for non blahaj lemmy users to weigh in and offer opinions.
I recently received reports of a feddit.uk user espousing transphobia. Specifically, this was a feddit.uk user refusing to use the word cis, repeating the “adult human female” dog whistle, and claiming that trans women are not women. I approached a member of the feddit.uk admin team and raised my concerns and sought clarification of their stance on posts like this, where the transphobia is mostly dogwhistles, and “civil disagreement” on the validity of trans folk.
I was told by the feddit.uk admin that their preferred response is this kind of transphobia is to “sort it out through discussion and voting”. However, the comments in question are currently more upvoted than downvoted, and little “sorting out” has occurred. The posts remain in place.
At this point, the admin stopped responding to my messages despite being active elsewhere on lemmy. When it became clear they were ignoring my messages and had no intention of removing the posts in question, I made the decision to defederate the instance.
I know some folk agree with the feddit.uk admins approach of pushback through discussion and voting, but this instance is not designed to be that kind of space. Blahaj lemmy is meant to be a place where we can avoid the rampant transphobia universally visible on nearly every other social media platform, and where we can exist without needing to debate our right to do so.
That’s crazy. I mean it’s their instance and I don’t think it was out of the realm for blahaj to do but over the post of one guy is crazy.
Clearly not a power trip, just protecting their user space like they promised they will.
It’s totally reasonable for them to enforce their level of anti-bigotry protections to protect their safe space instance. It’s not power tripping. Besides feddit.uk is full of full time labour centrist true believers and/or probable astroturfers and is is largely low value subreddit copy paste for their most substantial communities.
Ada‘s post contains no details or reasoning. Linking to the offending content would make this appear more deliberate.
The offending content was apparently this.
A woman is an adult female. A transwoman is an adult female who used to be male. It’s not difficult to grasp that they are different things. You can admit that and still believe that transwomen should be treated with dignity like anyone else.
Personally I don’t give a shit what bathroom people use or what they want to be referred to. I’ll go along with whatever… But a woman and a transwoman are different things, and it’s disingenuous to pretend otherwise. Always have been different things and always will be, no matter what the law states, now or in the future.
Kier’s words are still not transphobia. There is no fear, dislike, prejudice, discrimination, harassment, or violence in his statement. The scream of ‘transphobia’ is thrown around too much for anyone who disagrees with a narrow definition. Any disagreement is labelled as hate, and it’s silly.
Should a transwoman have the same rights and respect and opportunity as a woman (as per the legal definition)? Absolutely. Are they the same? No, they are not. Is that a hateful bigoted viewpoint worthy of scorn? I don’t believe so.
I don’t use the term cis. I use the term woman and you knew exactly what I meant. A blonde woman is a description of a woman’s hair colour and is a semantic-based response that is nothing to do with this point. You know this; it’s a foolish riposte that’s nothing at all to do with the clear and simple fact that a woman who used to be a man is not the same thing as a (cis) woman.
I can call it a woman who used to have a penis or a woman who used to be a man if you want me to be pedantic about it. Nothing to do with hair colour, or skin colour, or anything else except previously being a biological male and now identifying as a woman.
‘adult human female’ is not a dog whistle. It’s a legal and common-sense definition that you clearly understand but are trying to make out to be hate for some reason. I am not denying the legitimacy of transwomen; nor is Keir.
Transwomen and (cis) women are different things. And Transmen and (cis) men are different things. They have different names, which you yourself use for a reason. That reason being they are not the same thing. This is exactly the same as saying transwomen are not women, because they are not. They are transwomen.
It’s pretty simple.
That entire screed is a dogwhistle
Wtf, this isn’t hate. This is someone stating their perspective with no harmful intent. If anything that comment is a great starter to a serious discussion on the topic.
If Ada doesn’t want such content on their instance they have the right to defederade and I fully support their right to it, no matter the reason (it is their instance after all).
I can understand why someone would disagree with that comment, but calling it transphobia or hate speech?
The part that becomes transphobic is the insistence that the definitions are “transwoman” and “woman”. A trans woman (note the space) is a type of woman, no one denies that. It’d be like using the term “blondewoman” and insisting that they are different from every other kind of “woman”, and not included in womanhood.
Ada also pretty clearly stated why she didn’t link to the offending content:
https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/comment/14101300 in that she didn’t want to start a brigade, which I honestly think is pretty upstanding behaviour on her part. As well, I don’t see where the actual content has been linked, so I think the commenter above you might be full of shit, unless they can give a source.I’m not going to participate further in this circus after this comment though.
The second I saw Ada’s post the other day, I knew there’d be a PTB post with people either ignorantly, or knowingly pushing transphobic viewpoints.(Edit: I actually amend my statement. This comment thread was right at the top for me, but upon further reading people here have been really chill. Genuinely, thanks all for understanding that Blahaj is first and foremost a place for trans people to feel safe above any other concerns) It’s the ignorance that gets to me honestly, as if we don’t live in a world today where the majority of people aren’t susceptible to the overt fascism of Mussolini and Hitler anymore. Fascists, and other bad actors, realised they had to become smarter and more subtle with the way they spread hatred. They sow plausible-sounding doubt about transgender healthcare, like saying trans “children” are put on hormones when that’s only ever offered at 16 or older, or that these same “children” are given surgeries at 16 when no healthcare systems allow under 18 year olds to get surgery, and in fact many block trans adults from those life-saving procedures. It’s designed to be “death by a thousand cuts” because straight up attacking trans folks right to exist will cause most people to push back against that.Let me just ask you (the general you, not the person I’m replying to) what exactly the need for defining trans women as not biologically female actually is? Is it to stop us from using the women’s bathroom? Well, if your goal is to reduce the amount of people sexually assaulted, that will surely fail, and I shouldn’t have to explain why. Is it so that cis women can get the medical care they need, that differs from trans women? That’s not a problem that exists, nor would most trans women deny that cis women have their own medical needs, when we obviously have our own too. Is it to stop trans women from going to DV shelters? Do you really think a woman that’s being terrorised to the level of leaving her home is going to purposefully harm other women?
What is the actual need for defining trans women separately then? Why are certain people so obsessed by this need? The best answer I’ve got is the fact that the US executive government has decided to define them separately, and under the cover of that, they not only have stopped issuing passports with trans folks chosen gender marker, but have stopped issuing them in their gender assigned at birth as well. Let me repeat for you, trans folks Are Not Able To Get A Passport At All Anymore In The United States thanks to this manufactured debate around biological sex. I shudder to think about what comes next after an act like that.
The part that becomes transphobic is the insistence that the definitions are “transwoman” and “woman”. A trans woman (note the space) is a type of woman, no one denies that. It’d be like using the term “blondewoman” and insisting that they are different from every other kind of “woman”, and not included in womanhood.
I see, I wasn’t aware of this perspective.
Ada also pretty clearly stated why she didn’t link to the offending content: https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/comment/14101300 in that she didn’t want to start a brigade, which I honestly think is pretty upstanding behaviour on her part.
Not trans specific, and not really related, but I disagree with this view. Brigades are bad, they are the internet version of a street brawl and produce nothing of value. What I dislike is that “stopping brigades” usually also prevents actual discourse.
Let me just ask you (the general you, not the person I’m replying to) what exactly the need for defining trans women as not biologically female actually is?
What is the actual need for defining trans women separately then? Why are certain people so obsessed by this need?
I can only speak for myself: Since forever when someone uses the word “woman” in a conversation it is implicitly understood that they are referring to a cis woman. What rubs me the wrong way is that it feels like someone is forcefully trying to change that implicit meaning to mean “cis woman or trans woman” which would then necessitate referring to a cis woman as a “cis woman” instead of simply a “woman”, which in turn feels like I’m being forced to change the way I speak. I personally don’t think this is the case, but it is what it feels like. To me trans women are women as in, included in womanhood, and when I say the word “woman” in a casual conversation I’m implicitly referring to a cis woman.
To me trans women are women as in, included in womanhood, and when I say the word “woman” in a casual conversation I’m implicitly referring to a cis woman.
These two statements are an oxymoron though, you can’t really have it both ways. So if it “feels like” you’re being forced, that’s merely because social conventions push us to be clear with our language choices. It really isn’t any different from situations where you might have to say a “straight woman” or a “white woman” because it’s expedient to distinguish that group separately.
Also though, I wonder what situations you’re even referring to? If you start talking about women that can get pregnant (and just say “women”), as a matter of course I’m not going to scold you for not defining it as “non-menopausal women that haven’t had a hysterectomy”, nor would most people. So, have you been scolded for something similar where you meant cis women? If not, this feels like it’s just a strawman, a situation that doesn’t really come up, but is easy to try and win arguments over.
Ada also pretty clearly stated why she didn’t link to the offending content: https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/comment/14101300 in that she didn’t want to start a brigade, which I honestly think is pretty upstanding behaviour on her part. As well, I don’t see where the actual content has been linked, so I think the commenter above you might be full of shit, unless they can give a source.
How do you know the poster is full of shit? You didn’t even ask for the source.
Also defederating from an instance while not including the actual offending content is not very transparent.
Well, transparency only matters on blahaj.
And making a post warning users of blahaj is transparency. It’s coming to users and saying : here is an administrative decision being made, here is the rationale behind that decision.
There’s no need to link, copy, or otherwise bring up the original comment when the decision is based on the choices of other instances. It would be nice yeah, but not mandatory for transparency.
How do you know the poster is full of shit? You didn’t even ask for the source.
Because no one, not even the admins of feddit.uk, has stated the offending comment directly. It would be weird for a user of a different instance to be the only one in the know.
Also defederating from an instance while not including the actual offending content is not very transparent.
In this case, transparency has taken a backseat to preventing brigading, which I accept as a perfectly valid reason not to disclose. Considering I’m a user of the instance, my opinion here is actually important, because it’s not her job to be transparent with users elsewhere. Not even feddit.uk’s users, the admins there have the context and if they decide to share it is up to them.
But you didn’t ask the user how he got it! Surely before claiming that he is full of shit, you could have spent ~10 seconds typing out, “what is your source?” I didn’t see you do that in piefed thread.
Not even feddit.uk’s users, the admins there have the context and if they decide to share it is up to them.
BLZ can do whatever, but others are also allowed to make their own conclusions about the possible reasons for the lack of transparency.
They’re the only person in this thread trying to sow division and call the Blahaj admins decision into question, besides you of course. I don’t need to assume the best intentions in that case, and can draw my own conclusions. As a trans person, if I gave everyone the benefit of the doubt all of the time, I’d expose myself to far too much hatred.
If you want to choose to believe the reason is anything other than “to prevent brigading” than that’s up to you. feddit.uk admins seem to know the context, like I said before, so I don’t see how Ada could be lying here…
You’re welcome to assume bad faith or not bother, it’s your right.
The fact remains, you don’t know whether Pondercat is full of shit or not. You don’t have any evidence and you are not interested in interacting with Pondercat.
"Prevent brigading” is irrelevant at this point, the text is out, so you cannot prevent brigading if it’s real. So the question about transparency remains.
Pointing out clear lapses in logic is not “sowing division”.
makes sense to me, that is what blahaj is for 😒 besides people that agree with that user don’t want to interact with blahaj. And those that do could do it elsewhere
literally the fediverse working exactly as intended… blahaj clearly states its purpose and lives by it. on any other instance it might be ptb, but on blahaj thats just good instance administration
Seems fair, I don’t think this is PTB
The term transphobia is thrown around too much. People can disagree. It doesn’t make them hateful or fearful of it.
You can’t both be educated and disagree. Not without also being intentionally obtuse. Otherwise it’s just ignorance.
That’s not true. Biologically, a female cannot become a male or vice-versa. I don’t think I’m the one being intentionally obtuse. It’s always “follow the science,” until it’s inconvenient.
Ignorance it is.
I’ve composed a little ditty for my barbershop quartet:
“Hell Yeah!”
I’m afraid it loses something in text.
Good decision by Ada. I’m also quite pleased with how many instance mates stood up in here to defend blahaj’s decision.
PS: It occurs to me we might need a name for our peeps. I.e. like one talks about “lemmings” or “redditors”, we could use something for members of the divisions by zero. Edit
NaNcats
It occurs to me we might need a name for our peeps
DeBasers, zero.
Dbzer0 users. Easiest way to use it for other instances as well
Yes but, counterpoint: Boring.
Beezers.
Some suggestions:
- NaNs
- Infinitesimals
- Zeroids
- ∞s
Mmm naan
Would users of PieFed become PieHeads? 😜
How are people still struggling with the basic concept that the person who runs Blahaj can do what they want with Blahaj?
All I get from this type of moaning is: “I joined a decentralised platform and now disagree with decentralisation in action.”
If this kind of action is what it takes for Blahajists to protect their necks then this is how it’s gonna be…
They’re not struggling at all, just supremely butthurt that they’re not being given a direct platform to abuse people.
Hit the nail right on the head here, they’re whining because the trans people won’t allow them to debate and strawman their existence. I’m happy that Blahaj challenges socially acceptable transphobia and I really wish more people would do it. These types of transphobes shouldn’t feel welcome anywhere
with trans peopleat all.Blahaj should do more like this.
That username though, </////<
Your username is kinkier.
I, it is?
If I was a princess, my family would marry me off to a French duke ten years older than me for political favours. I’m basically being sold, like an object. He’s probably rough in bed. Maybe after a hard day’s work ruling the duchy, he likes to come home and hit me until I bleed. And it would be un-christian for me to complain or ask for a divorce, so I just get raped and beaten by Daddy every night like a good little girl. 🤤❤️
fair for both sides, I don’t see a PTB here.
I feel like this community serves a great purpose. And I’m a massive fan of drinking my tea and reading all the drama it attracts. But I am just beyond tired of the same handful of commenters popping up to always agree with whoever is opposed to blahaj.
I give this one a YDI. Anybody posting anything transphobic who gets caught by Ada is gonna be banned. Any instance with a mod or admin who makes transphobic posts or comments will get defederated. No one is entitled to having their content served on Ada’s servers, and the people who join blahaj know that, and seem to appreciate it.
Which is sort of why I always wind up agreeing with her. Her server has clear, concise beliefs, and clear, concise administration, and she has the clear-throated consent of her governed or they would leave.
The only server whose vibe I appreciate more is divide by zero. Shout-out to what I feel is the most neurospicy, nonconformist bunch of pirates I ever met.
Dawwww!
That’s why I chose blahaj zone as my instance. It’s nice not having to justify my existence
Yeah, Ada’s modding may be seen as heavy-handed by some, but that’s largely because it’s a reaction to the fact basically nowhere is safe for people who are trans. Maintaining a truly trans-inclusive space requires active heavy-handed moderation, because going easy or remaining passive just leads to transphobes sneaking in.
She should go harder.
Just a sense check here, are you asserting that Ada is a PTB for defederating from feddit.uk after their admins failed to take action?
Blajah Zone is specifically run as a safe space for trans folks, so it’s an emphatic YDI to feddit.uk from me.
Given that the UK Supreme Court recently ruled that the legal definition of a woman in the UK is based on biological sex, and the supposedly Labour PM Starmer is running with it (wtf Starmer???), it’s not surprising to me that TERFs and their supporters are coming out of the woodwork on feddit.uk.
Fuck TERFs and fuck Starmer for jumping on Trump’s anti-DEI bandwagon just to pander to transphobic voters.
I’m not asserting anything. My motivation was exactly what it says in the opening post. I think discussion about these things is important.
Sadly it seems I’ve made a mistake and that this sub might have been the wrong place to post. I didn’t realise this community did PTB / YDI style determinations and yes, I failed to read the side bar prior to posting.
Unfortunately it seems like there is some actual discussion happening so it feels wrong to just delete the post at this point. I was going to report my own post but it seems that’s not possible?
Thank you for facilitating discussions on this. Sorry for my ignorance, but what are PTB/YDI determinations? Not sure what I found on duckduckgo is relevant.
Power Tripping Bastard / You Deserve It
Yes, if you were just looking to report the news, the comm blaze pointed out might better. For the popcorn takes [email protected] might be more appropriate.
We have [email protected] for this kind of conversations
Yeah that’s what prompted my question really, because I wasn’t sure how it fitted the format. I guess if we explicitly make the subject whether the feddit admin(s) deserved the defederation, then I guess it kind of fits the format though. And it’s nice to see such a strong show of support for Ada and Blajah.
OP seems pretty neutral and this is just a “here’s what’s going on in lemmy moderation/administration”.
Then why did they post about it in this community?
100%. If this was an information only style post, they wouldn’t be saying that it should’ve allowed debate… and we have a whole fediverse lore sub specifically for info.
They pointed elsewhere they didn’t understand the purpose of this comm.
Oh, hadn’t considered that it was a misunderstanding. Those seem so rare nowadays.
I wasn’t sure how to take the post, so that’s why I wanted a sense check. But yeah, I assume you are correct.
terfs fuck off.
