As someone who’s competed against all manner of genders in roller derby, lemme tell you, trans people are tough as nails and you want them fighting for America. The USA men’s team for the RD World Cup even has a trans-man, and they beat out 50 biological men for that spot.
Trans men are (or can be) biologically male. The best term to use for ‘non-trans’ men would be cisgender men. ‘Biological’ is the preferred term that bigots use to spread misinformation and insinuate that trans people aren’t real, natural, or equal.
Someone else said it pretty well:
Biological sex is a construct.
It is based on the observable traits of:
Primary sexual characteristics
Secondary sexual characeristics
Gonadal Sex
Chromosomal Sex
A fully medically transitioned trans person usually matches a majority of these, so it is totally reasonable to say trans women are biologically female, and trans men are biologically male. Generally, the binary categorization of sex is scientifically unsound; it should be understood as a spectrum.
I think the point that you seem to be missing is that your language is not respectful. Adding the word respectfully doesn’t change that. The other poster was offering constructive advice and the rationale. You’re just being wilfully ignorant at this point.
His language was very respectful. You’re upset because he’s not using the labels that the queer community has come up with to make normal people feel judged.
You guys are genuinely trying to control what people think at this point, and it’s disgusting.
“Biological (insert gender here)” serves as a dogwhistle for a lot of organizations that actively push trans bigotry. It gives a fake impression of a scientific take on sex that really hasn’t been embraced by the scientific community for about 50 years at this point.
They aren’t telling you what to think here, they are alerting you to a tool that organized bigotry is using and giving potential tools to subvert it. Once you see “Biological man/woman” for what it actually is (non-scientfic false categorization) it really can’t be unseen.
Also - Can we stop with the calls that people are trying to control what people think? It’s pretty lame. There’s nothing about this interaction that is trying to force you. All that’s happening is you’ve denied that a certain school of thought is valid. You have stated your reasons why you think it’s invalid and now people who have taken upthat school of thought are defending their position. That’s just normal discourse.
Give you a hint. When people tell you “they are trying to control what people think” that’s actually doing more to control people - because it’s asking someone to take it on someone else’s faith that there’s nothing to be listened to rather than engaging with the arguement yourself.
anyone who doesn’t use the terminology that you want them to is a transphobe in your mind
Wrong. Bad idea to put words in someone’s mouth, you look stupid doing it
That’s why they get so upset and try to censor anyone who disagrees with them.
You’re the one who got upset and is trying to shy someone down, the person who originally raised the issue was civil and suggestive. Shocker you’re too stupid to know the difference
You know what’s wild? This is the first time I’ve ever heard of men doing roller derby. I mean, I’m not surprised that men do it, I’m just surprised that I’ve gone my whole life up to this point and never heard of/encountered/or met men that do roller derby. Are all-male teams common in the sport?
My understanding is that this was definitely a thing. It’s been over a decade, but I recall reading a bit about it in a book called ‘Conduct Unbecoming’, a history of gay people in the military.
Note that I’ve just read a few books and am not an expert though. I just don’t care about the genitals of the badass putting on the uniform to protect me.
I never wanted to be told what to do, much less when to put my life in danger, so the military wasn’t a great fit for me. However, I’d be 100% astounded if gay and cross dressing soldiers, seamen etc. weren’t a somewhat common thing throughout the ages, about as or more common than trans-gender in society today, which Google currently rates as about 1/200 people.
I’ve read too much history to put my life in the hands of the US military. They’d just order me to bomb civilians and I’d end up in prison for disobeying orders.
As someone who’s competed against all manner of genders in roller derby, lemme tell you, trans people are tough as nails and you want them fighting for America. The USA men’s team for the RD World Cup even has a trans-man, and they beat out 50 biological men for that spot.
Trans men are (or can be) biologically male. The best term to use for ‘non-trans’ men would be cisgender men. ‘Biological’ is the preferred term that bigots use to spread misinformation and insinuate that trans people aren’t real, natural, or equal.
Someone else said it pretty well:
Respectfully, I’m not going to get into the linguistic gymnastics here. My meaning is clear.
I think the point that you seem to be missing is that your language is not respectful. Adding the word respectfully doesn’t change that. The other poster was offering constructive advice and the rationale. You’re just being wilfully ignorant at this point.
His language was very respectful. You’re upset because he’s not using the labels that the queer community has come up with to make normal people feel judged.
You guys are genuinely trying to control what people think at this point, and it’s disgusting.
“Biological (insert gender here)” serves as a dogwhistle for a lot of organizations that actively push trans bigotry. It gives a fake impression of a scientific take on sex that really hasn’t been embraced by the scientific community for about 50 years at this point.
They aren’t telling you what to think here, they are alerting you to a tool that organized bigotry is using and giving potential tools to subvert it. Once you see “Biological man/woman” for what it actually is (non-scientfic false categorization) it really can’t be unseen.
Also - Can we stop with the calls that people are trying to control what people think? It’s pretty lame. There’s nothing about this interaction that is trying to force you. All that’s happening is you’ve denied that a certain school of thought is valid. You have stated your reasons why you think it’s invalid and now people who have taken upthat school of thought are defending their position. That’s just normal discourse.
Give you a hint. When people tell you “they are trying to control what people think” that’s actually doing more to control people - because it’s asking someone to take it on someone else’s faith that there’s nothing to be listened to rather than engaging with the arguement yourself.
Removed by mod
Fuck off, transphobe, they clearly stated the issue is that the term is generally used by transphobe and not legit allies
No they’re not, and you’re a bigot, and it’s actually disgusting
Well, anyone who doesn’t use the terminology that you want them to is a transphobe in your mind.
Yes, they are. That’s why they get so upset and try to censor anyone who disagrees with them.
Wrong. Bad idea to put words in someone’s mouth, you look stupid doing it
You’re the one who got upset and is trying to shy someone down, the person who originally raised the issue was civil and suggestive. Shocker you’re too stupid to know the difference
Sorry, I have to ignore you now.
You will not stop until you get what you want, and I have better things to do with my time. Goodbye.
Removed by mod
No worries. I added plenty of context, so everyone knows my meaning and intent.
That’s shitty. Just take the advice.
Thank you for your opinion. I hope you have a nice weekend.
That’s also not a very nice thing to say.
You don’t want to change your stance on your transphobic wording?
You know what’s wild? This is the first time I’ve ever heard of men doing roller derby. I mean, I’m not surprised that men do it, I’m just surprised that I’ve gone my whole life up to this point and never heard of/encountered/or met men that do roller derby. Are all-male teams common in the sport?
USARS and MRDA have mixed-gender rules. Each team can only field two men in a jam, and if they have a guy sitting in the box, that counts.
I don’t know many all-male leagues or teams (apart from Team USA), just because there aren’t that many men in the sport.
How many WWII films depict trans shows put on for the troops by the troops? Especially in the Navy. Is that all fiction?
My understanding is that this was definitely a thing. It’s been over a decade, but I recall reading a bit about it in a book called ‘Conduct Unbecoming’, a history of gay people in the military.
Note that I’ve just read a few books and am not an expert though. I just don’t care about the genitals of the badass putting on the uniform to protect me.
I never wanted to be told what to do, much less when to put my life in danger, so the military wasn’t a great fit for me. However, I’d be 100% astounded if gay and cross dressing soldiers, seamen etc. weren’t a somewhat common thing throughout the ages, about as or more common than trans-gender in society today, which Google currently rates as about 1/200 people.
I’ve read too much history to put my life in the hands of the US military. They’d just order me to bomb civilians and I’d end up in prison for disobeying orders.