• Rottcodd@kbin.social
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    1 year ago

    It’s never been about the money.

    The Republicans and their grifters want Putin to win. It’s just that simple.

  • OurToothbrush@lemmy.ml
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    1 year ago

    “The war is cheap in terms of American lives” is a right wing, nationalist sentiment. “American” lives dont have any more value than any other lives.

    • elint@programming.dev
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      1 year ago

      Sure, but the American government’s entire point is to collect American taxes and provide benefits for Americans. To minimize monetary cost and maximize benefit to American lives is exactly what it should be doing.

      • OurToothbrush@lemmy.ml
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        1 year ago

        Wait, are you telling me that nations are oriented around nationalism?

        This is why I’m for stateless global communism

          • TokenBoomer@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            It’s only impossible because people like you refuse to see it’s possibility. If enough people see it’s possibility. It becomes not only possible, but inevitable.

            • Sunfoil@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              You would have to overcome the combined political and military might of every country in the world to enact that system. How about you work on getting basic healthcare to people first. That actually might happen in your lifetime.

                • Sunfoil@lemmy.world
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                  1 year ago

                  Because every effort devoted to unobtainable utopias is effort detracted from being politically effective in the current system and erodes the legitimacy of the left wing. And besides, most communists are hoping for revolution, and not actually helping people.

          • InputZero@lemmy.ml
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            1 year ago

            The best reason there is, to have something to dream for. We see it in tons of our literature, look at how popular Star Trek is. It’s not the crazy sci-fi stories that had people coming back, it was the world the audience wanted to live in. I wouldn’t stomp on someone’s dream like that. Especially when it is widely impossible, like who cares? It’s their dream.

            It’s shortsighted to think that global communism is achievable within a human lifespan just as it is to assume that system won’t be as vulnerable to corruption as current systems are. However that’s beside the point, why advocate for something so widely impossible; because maybe it gives people hope that things may get better. If it was possible I’d definitely take more interest cause I don’t think it’ll work out how a lot of people who advocate for global communism think it will, but it’s not possible.

            • Sunfoil@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              Because politics actually matter, and for every person LARPIng about trying to make star trek a reality, is one less person working towards achievable goals making an actual difference in our actual systems. If all of the commies stopped preparing for the revolution and started voting and being proactive in their local party politics, they’d probably be surprised how much they could get done.

              • Black AOC@lemmygrad.ml
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                1 year ago

                Local politics don’t allow for our parties, even at that level. Electoralism is a crock. Power does not grow from a ballot box; and trying to tell me it does only makes me want your shit to collapse faster.

                • Sunfoil@lemmy.world
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                  1 year ago

                  It does though. The democracies are functional, people vote, and the most votes choose the government. You obviously wouldn’t want to run as the stateless global communism party, because you would get zero votes, because no one wants that system. And my shit is your shit. Unless you’re prepared for societal collapse, you will want to work in the system. And frankly, the power vacuum arriving from this revolution will be filled by the right wing. They are armed, trained and ready to go.

  • mkwt@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    It looks to me like this war is pretty cheap on both American lives, and on the American taxpayers’ pocketbook.

    • MrVilliam@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      It’s almost like the real reason they are against aid for Ukraine is that they just parrot whatever their media outlets put out, and they put out being against aid for Ukraine because they want Russia to win and they want lower taxes and reduced regulation for themselves. It’s almost like conservatives are really fucking gullible so long as you pretend you’re on their side and point at somebody for them to blame.

      • Changetheview@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        The weirdest part to me is how “support the troops” is always a priority for most in the group opposing Ukrainian support. In fact, military support is usually so critical that they can set aside many of their primary targets of small government and fiscal responsibility.

        I get that this isn’t the “our” troops they usually chant about, but it easily could be, especially if Russia continues its aggressive action. It doesn’t seem that it’s that hard to understand that if you’re willing to give the US military nearly a trillion dollars, it isn’t a bad idea to give support to a country actively fighting against this threat.

        I guess it really does just come down to people convinced that Russia is somehow not a threat to the US, even though the leaders of “our troops” feel differently.

        https://news.usni.org/2021/08/18/russia-is-top-military-threat-to-u-s-homeland-air-force-general-says

        • MrVilliam@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          I’m not particularly concerned about Russia militarily threatening the US, but a strong and emboldened Russia putting pressure on Europe is not favorable for us. Eastern Europe generally speaking has less money and power, and therefore with have trouble defending against Russia. As those nations fall, Russia gains land and resources, which makes them more of a threat to Western Europe. Even at a near stalemate in Ukraine, resources are flowing from us and our allies, bottlenecking supply chain, production, logistics, etc. This leads to challenges in receiving resources, and the price is higher if we can even get shit. If you stop thinking right there, I guess I can see how people might oppose aiding Ukraine. But people who think things through realize that Western Europe in direct conflict with a stronger Russia will only make those exact issues even worse. And decent people don’t even need to realize and understand that because the moral implications of indifference to the massive amount of dead civilians is plenty of reason to be on board. But even a sociopath should be able to understand the concept of “a stitch in time saves nine.”

    • Syndic@feddit.de
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      1 year ago

      And pretty profitable for the military complex which finally is used for a good cause. Didn’t these republicans receive their yearly lobby cheque?

  • Leraje@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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    1 year ago

    Your current crop of Republicans don’t really care about the US or American values - they want to live in a Margret Attwood novel.

  • BarqsHasBite@lemmy.ca
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    1 year ago

    The war is cheap in all terms (expect Ukrainian’s). I believe most of the dollar numbers you see includes equipment value when they were going to be scrapped anyway. The accountants have to give it a fair dollar value, but in practical terms it’s zero.

  • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.ml
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    1 year ago

    One has to be a truly deplorable piece of human garbage to say “The war is cheap in terms of American lives”. This is basically an admission that Americans don’t give a fuck about the lives of Ukrainians and re cynically using them as a proxy to fight Russia. Americans continue to expose themselves as the scum of the earth that they are.

      • davel [he/him]@lemmygrad.ml
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        1 year ago

        We haven’t donated shit: it’s all being done through lend-lease. The Ukrainians will be be paying back the massive debt for generations, assuming the country even survives.

      • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.ml
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        1 year ago

        Yeah to try and advance your own geopolitical position. The actions of your regime resulted in hundreds of thousands of deaths and a whole country being destroyed all so you chuds could try and weaken Russia in some way. You are utterly deplorable.

        • loutr@sh.itjust.works
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          1 year ago

          I guess you mean Russia had no choice but to attack Ukraine? Because of the US/NATO? If so could you explain the reasoning behind this please? I genuinely don’t understand this argument. Seems to me that this war is really detrimental to the Russian people, and they absolutely would have been better off not waging it.

          • Black AOC@lemmygrad.ml
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            1 year ago

            sh.itsfulla.nazis poster completely ignoring how the NATO-collective West flouted the entirety of the Minsk Accords, as fucking usual. You people are oathbreakers. Always have been, always will be; 400 years of breaking treaties to all and sundry and murdering them when they call you on it. This is just another link in a chain your kind have spent hundreds of years forging, peckerwood. Murderous barbarians, every single one of you.

          • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.ml
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            1 year ago

            The war happened because NATO kept expanding eastwards. Stoltenberg has now publicly acknowledged that Putin made clear to NATO in a draft treaty before the war that it could avert it if NATO agreed not to keep enlarging. But NATO rejected the offer.

            Then lastly on Sweden. First of all, it is historic that now Finland is member of the Alliance. And we have to remember the background. The background was that President Putin declared in the autumn of 2021, and actually sent a draft treaty that they wanted NATO to sign, to promise no more NATO enlargement. That was what he sent us. And was a pre-condition for not invade Ukraine. Of course we didn’t sign that.

            The opposite happened. He wanted us to sign that promise, never to enlarge NATO. He wanted us to remove our military infrastructure in all Allies that have joined NATO since 1997, meaning half of NATO, all the Central and Eastern Europe, we should remove NATO from that part of our Alliance, introducing some kind of B, or second class membership. We rejected that.

            https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/opinions_218172.htm#:~:text=The background was that President,condition for not invade Ukraine

    • lennybird@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      Wouldn’t it be nice if all these tyrants like Putin would just stay in their own homes…?

      If only it were that simple to look the other way from your neighbor getting attacked and raped.

      As if such persons ever stop after their first successful house…

      • lorty@lemmygrad.ml
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        1 year ago

        Oh man, maybe if there was some agreeement between Russia and Ukraine that avoided war, it could even be negotiated in a third country, maybe in Minsk? That could have been a great way to avoid war, too bad nothing like that happened. Imagine if NATO even broke such treaty? Would be too far fetched even Call of Duty haha

        • RedBaronHarkonnen@lemm.ee
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          1 year ago

          I think Hungary would be a better choice. Or were you going for a variety in places for Ukrainian and Russian agreements?

      • Soviet Snake@lemmygrad.ml
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        1 year ago

        I didn’t know Ukraine was a neighbour of the US, or maybe you are talking metaphorically in the sense of “our white supremacists pals/neighbours”.

        • RedBaronHarkonnen@lemm.ee
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          1 year ago

          Russia should not be in any part of Ukraine, including Crimea.

          United States and Russia agreed on the subject.

          • Soviet Snake@lemmygrad.ml
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            1 year ago

            Spanish has gendered nouns, they can either be masculine or feminine, but there are some adjectives that are kind of neuter. Do you want to stay on the subject or just ramble about whatever, because I never mentioned whatever you’re bringing up.

      • Black AOC@lemmygrad.ml
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        1 year ago

        whatabout whatabout whatabout ad infinitum

        Funny that when liberals do it they get upvoted to the stars; let it get turned on them tho lmfao…

    • Black AOC@lemmygrad.ml
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      1 year ago

      They told us the kinds of people they were when they said “some lives would have to be lost for the economy”. At the time, they were talking about COVID. You see just how quick that pivots to the military-industrial complex when western “liberal” dronies feel they have a self-justified underclass to aim at.

  • harmonea@kbin.social
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    1 year ago

    Come on now, you know the left panels would have said something about tax breaks for “job creators.” You only wish they fumbled on their absurd message.

  • Lyricism6055@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    Alternative is we just print another 80billion while simultaneously trying to curb inflation. Good plan!

  • o_d [he/him]@lemmygrad.ml
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    1 year ago

    This meme is such a dumbass lib take. A broken clock… Just because Republicans came to the conclusion that the war should end for the wrong reasons doesn’t mean that the conclusion is wrong. We should all be pushing for negotiations and an end to the bloodshed. You dronies have become absolutely insufferable. If you’re so pro-war, then why don’t you volunteer and head to the frontline? Slava my anus!

    • WarmSoda@lemm.ee
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      1 year ago

      You’re talking about the war that Putin just said Russia never started, right? That war? The one that Putin has refused negotiations to stop multiple times?

      I just want to make sure you’re commenting on the same war the rest of the world is talking about.

    • Kalkaline @leminal.space
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      1 year ago

      Why should Ukraine ask for anything less than the full withdraw of Russian forces from inside their borders?

      • o_d [he/him]@lemmygrad.ml
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        1 year ago

        Why should Russia settle for anything less than an end to the cleansing of ethnic Russians in Ukraine? They tried to negotiate an end to this, but the US admitted that the agreement was just to buy time in order to arm Ukraine.

        Ukraine can ask for a quadrillion dollars in compensation, but it doesn’t mean that it’s going to happen. Russia is completely in control of this conflict and if the bloodshed is going to end, the Ukrainian state needs a fucking reality check in order to come to terms with the fact they they’re going to need to make some concessions.

            • sivalente@lemm.ee
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              1 year ago

              Because you’re asking stupid ass questions that lead down your own rabbit hole and no one wants to go down there but you.

            • Soulg@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              Because you’re asking for people to explain things that you made up

            • Kalkaline @leminal.space
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              1 year ago

              Because now you’re just making things up. There is no evidence of Ukrainian led ethnic cleansing.

              • o_d [he/him]@lemmygrad.ml
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                1 year ago

                What would you call banning pro Russian political parties from running in elections, banning the use of the Russian language in schools and state affairs? What would you call it when a paramilitary of neonazis shells the villages, towns, and cities of a specific ethnic group who declared independence because they saw their rights being stripped away? If you believe any of this to be okay, then you might be, no, you are a fascist.

            • Black AOC@lemmygrad.ml
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              1 year ago

              Because these yanks don’t have an answer. They just want hegemony. They just want domination. They want Russian bodies and blood, have wanted Russian bodies and blood for seventy+ years; and now will stop at nothing to get it, like the bloodthirsty mongrels they are. Like the absolute fucking horrorshow ghouls they always have been, since antiquity. And y’know the absolute most hilarious part of all this? The most laugh-riot thing they’ll do in like five years, after this conflict’s been put out of collective memory?

              They’ll all, every single one of these mongrels, will act like they didn’t spend these days baying for the blood of the innocent. Just like in Iraq. Just like in Afghanistan. Just like in Syria. Just like in Libya. Just like… Ad infinitum. And they’ll never be held accountable for it.