Always gotta love the faux-confidence the libs have of knowing they are always right, because they can dismiss anyone who doesn’t agree with them as biased/a shill/propagandist.
Heaven forbid somebody engage in an intellectually honest debate with somebody with a differing opinion. Even if somebody IS spouting propaganda, you don’t become tainted by having a discussion with them; you might even convince a third party who is viewing.
Listen pal, Ukraine is Dumbledore’s Rebellion Army and Russia is goddamn Dark Vader and the Nazis (bad) all rolled into one. Now are you gonna wise up and support the Nazis (good) against the bigoted slavic hordes, or am I gonna have to write more vague masturbatory screeds in the cadence of a West Wing monologue I half-watched once?
That’s what I thought.
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Do you need help? Should we be concerned?
I ain’t reading all that but go off I guess xD
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Hitler’s gone mad
Brooklynman is a misgendering reactionary who calls people snowflakes.
The other one is probably his experimental debatebro bot. Only something like 10 lines that have 0 context relevance.
Edit: Now he is using both accounts to doubledownvote everything (in sync)
This is only one person
Holy shit go look at the thread right now, that guy have SERIOUS problems.
Yeah, I think we broke him. He got banned by our mods now tho.
Btw i just spotted “why there are fascists in our antiauthoritarian space” moment on modlog:
“Oh you have a sound counter argument? What a way to put words in my mouth. Also here’s some wikipedia links without me explaining how your arguments connect to them.”
That reminds me of the trot here once who wanted me to read the wikipedia page on Tibet in lieu of giving me actual arguments as to how Tibet was before the revolution.
You: makes a one-off sentence
Trot: heh, unfortunately, you haven’t read the entire wikipedia page on this issue
I sneaky linked him pig poop balls like an article and he didn’t even click it 😥
So sneaky, you got me. Thanks lol
Glad somebody appreciated it!! 😁
They should really just ban him already.
Agreed. He said in that thread that the report pop up is broken because he always sees it. The only time I’ve seen it is when I tried engaging with him. I suspect there’s no bug but that he reports everyone and everyone reports him.
Uuuuuuugh, “I don’t like this source” is easily one of my least favorite responses; the respondent may as well not even post since they’re ignoring the content anyway. Yes, the Wall Street Journal is puke, but nobody lies 100% of the time. That’s why you need to learn how to read critically.
There has to be some sort of course that people can take to teach them how to properly scrutinize sources and distinguish between good reporting and rumourmongering, rather than trying to take shortcuts like that.
And what’s up with all of the repetitive definitions and attempts to accuse you of being logically fallacious? It doesn’t make the replier look clever; it’s just extremely embarrassing.
Liberals are basically a cult at this point, I honestly don’t think it’s possible to engage with them in a meaningful way. They’ve basically constructed a narrative regarding how the world works, and anything that doesn’t fit into that narrative gets discarded. Amusingly, libs are able to recognize this behavior in other cults like qanon, but are not able to apply the same analysis to themselves.
I suspect it’s going to take a crisis that affect these people in a tangible material way for them to start questioning their beliefs and examining things in a critical fashion.
And the types of replies in that thread are basically a learned behavior where libs just dismiss things they don’t want to hear and expect the rest of the libs to pile on to downvote.
basically a learned behavior where libs just dismiss things they don’t want to hear and expect the rest of the libs to pile on to downvote.
Makes it twice as funny when the browbeating cavalry fails to arrive
💯
Yes, the Wall Street Journal is puke, but nobody lies 100% of the time. That’s why you need to learn how to read critically.
The point we post explicitly liberal sources is to make liberals think even for just a second. Turns out, it’s still not enough.
And what’s up with all of the repetitive definitions and attempts to accuse you of being logically fallacious?
It’s an old trolling technique, but this guy apparently didn’t even understand how it’s done.
I had a philosophy professor years ago who said that people who make catalogues of logical fallacies don’t really understand logic. The true logician simply examines the argument, notes that it doesn’t follow, and tells you why without using any jargon.
Being on the internet has convinced me this guy was completely correct.
It’s not only an internet, reading philosphy in general i noticed it’s awfully filled with jargon. And it tend to use it in worst possible manner.
Philosophy has a tendency to need to use very specialized language to avoid problems of ambiguity and to precisely identify concepts that have no reason to come up in the vast, vast majority of conversation among laypeople.
I mean, yes and no. You go to Aristotle, for instance, and while his work is definitely not easy to understand – it being lecture notes and all – it’s surprising how little jargon he uses, with most of it being just common words used in a restricted sense, e.g., “matter” or “relation.”
Aristotle had the benefit of not having millennia of literature to be working in relation with, and himself is quite responsible for the promotion of metaphysics as a philosophical field, which is perhaps the most obscure branch of philosophy.
Yeah, but seriously what’s even the point of such wisdom, especially when it can led people into things like subjective idealism. Or maybe it’s because idealists needs to reach insane levels of abstraction to even explain their idiotic ideas.
Probably a certain amount of specialized terminology is neccesary, and the complete lack of it, as in (say) Nietzsche, doesn’t always signify a profound thinker. But I agree with you that most contemporary philosophers use jargon simply to obscure.
I mean, from what i see Nietzsche key to popularity was precisely the fact he’s understandable, because he mostly just rambled, but laymen at least can tell what he meant.
Yeah, there was some point to it back in Aristotle’s day, but you can tell how much someone doesn’t know about logic from the degree to which they lean on pat lists of informal fallacies. Formal fallacies, as in those produced by incorrect inference in classical logic (or an argument that can be accurately reduced to classical logic), are infinite in a similar way to how “wrong answers to math equations” is an infinite category. “Informal fallacies” are a catalogue of rhetorical tricks and cognitive biases that it is good to be aware of but which don’t have very much to do with logic as a field.
Exactly. If you know how logic works – how we human beings think – you will be able to easily indentify arguments which don’t work.
Gotta agree. While I enjoy just vibing with the comrades here, having those clashes adds hilarity, memes and develops a culture that made eg GZD so unique.
It’s amazing to see how liberals have no idea what to do when they end up outside their circle jerk. They aren’t able to articulate any actual points, and they’re used to just piling on anyone who says things they disagree with and not have to actually make an argument of their own. My favorite is the guy who keeps linking to wikipedia descriptions of logical fallacies without actually understanding them. 😂
It’s already starting to happen in lemmy.ml, saw a post in world news where they called someone a neo Nazi for pointing out a pro Ukraine article was written by a Ukrainian govt official. Chaos ensued.
LMAO just checked c/ukraine on lemmy.ml and it’s completely overrun by libs inventing reality. It’s going to be absolutely incredible to watch the meltdowns when it becomes obvious that the west is losing the war.
Wait it is not obvious yet? how obvious are we talking here?
Reality hasn’t pierced the bubble yet, in mainstream lib circles Ukraine is still winning and Russian army is falling apart. Putin is about to be overthrown any day now.
I expect that the turning point will be when US cuts and runs. The failed offensive likely moved up the timeline for that significantly. It’s going to be interesting to see how NATO meeting goes in July.
That’s one of the problems with the WSJ article: the framing implies that Ukraine still has a chance of kicking out Russia militarily. While we might be able to see through the headline, even articles like this provide some comfort to liberals.
Oh for sure, and it’s pretty much impossible to publish an honest article in western media at this point. I mean look how Sachs has to go on random youtube channels now.
I don’t think the West plans on losing. I feel they plan to continue it for as long as possible, so as to transfer as much wealth to the military industrial complex as possible.
It’s pretty clear that all the plans the west made over the past two years have resulted in failure, I’m not sure why we should expect anything different going forward. Definitely agree that wealth transfer to the oligarchs who own the MIC is a big part of what keeps the proxy war going though.
I love libs now support literal nazis to the hilt while calling everyone else a nazi for pointing it out.
its funny on one hand, but also really disturbing tbh. In the USA there are the incoherant liberals and the incoherant fascists and any left wing movement that seek to make the world better is stifled with childish namecalling.
At this point I’m convinced that US is just going to implode as a country. As economic situation continues to unravel people are becoming increasingly agitated, and lacking any sort of understanding of what’s actually happening leads to increased tribalism. Most people in US are now aware at some level that the country isn’t working for the majority of the people, but they just blame the other camp for all the problems. This can easily turn into civil unrest and violence once the material conditions deteriorate to the point where a significant portion of the public finds them unbearable.
Ukraine community:
In the upper 50-70 posts there’s like 3 your posts critical of the narration and every single other post is straight up either UA propaganda, western repost of UA propaganda or westoid rablings going even further than UA propaganda.
I mean these people have been subjected to some of the most intense propaganda ever deployed for like two years now. Arguably this can even be traced back to the Russiagate conspiracy theory. That primed libs to hate Russia, and then all the Ukraine propaganda just hitches on to that.
It’s stil not an excuse for the inability to count to 3
🤣
This is what happens when you’ve been deep soaked in western lib propaganda on Reddit for years, and are shown a bit of dissonance to the talking points you’ve been gurgling for years.
It’s like exposure/shock therapy… Except they just get scared and run away cause forming your own opinion from facts is scary.
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Just imagine the levels of copium we’ll be seeing in the next few months when the whole Ukrainian offensive burns out and Russia starts making gains.
And we’re the ones who want to exist in self-affirming spaces? Liberals can’t see the hypocrisy of decrying the far-right yet acting exactly like them.
it’s always projections
They left reddit because of reddit bullshit and the first thing they want to do in this new space is create the exact same conditions that made reddit crap.
This is colonialism all over again.
They aren’t even shy about it (post about “tankies”):
and how’s rexxit going for them lol
Most of them will probably get back.
Liberals have no convictions. 90% of them only came here to effetely virtue-signal at Spez, and they’ll have their tongues back between his toes by this time in July
This is colonialism all over again.
Yeah, I see a lot of bragging about “pushing tankies out of the space”, the space that they founded, mind you. Not even content with just creating echo chambers to exist blindly and unquestioningly in (beehaw), they don’t want other groups to have anything for themselves; they aren’t satisfied getting a space for themselves until they can be sure their ‘enemy’ also has no space for themselves.
they aren’t satisfied getting a space for themselves until they can be sure their ‘enemy’ also has no space for themselves.
They know that deplatforming works. Even the westolefto, despite all their freezepeach nonsense.
I swear to god, when this shit is finished I’m going to bottle liberals tears and drink it with vodka. I fucking can’t wait enough for the West to fall, I hate so much having to interact with these people.
Their whole world view if fractally wrong, and it’s going to be incredible to see how they react when they’re finally forced to start reconciling it with reality.
They’ll pretend they were always on the right side of it, they always do that.
Damn, I can’t respond to the one lib because they’re banned from lemmygrad.
I couldn’t even see comments I made from here on to there. Are we all blocked from visibility? I can just use my lemmy login.
that shouldn’t be the case for Lemmygrad and lemmy.ml, unless you view it from an instance that blocks Lemmygrad
Maybe I confused it with another lemmy instance
Holy crap, this guy BrooklynMan:
I’ll start by addressing your second question first: bias isn’t a binary; it exists on a spectrum. there’s a difference between a tiny bit of bias and extreme bias. So, though previous research and experience, I have come to trust some sources more than others and come to expect certain sources to have more or less bias in one direction or another. that, combined with comparative analysis of multiple sources, one can come closer to factual reporting through one’s own critical analysis of the reporting itself-- however, depending on what’s reported and the sources available, sometimes… one can only be so certain that one is getting the truth.
it can be frustrating trying to find accurate reporting of a story, even from previously trusted sources. I encourage people to read their news from multiple sources whose backgrounds they’ve investigated and to critically analyze the facts presented, and that they apply their own critical analysis to try their best to arrive as close as they can to the facts. Also, to realize that, in the world of corporate media, that being certain that the news you’re consuming is 100% accurate my not be possible.
Has anything libbier ever been spewed?
I love how BrooklynMan fundamentally doesn’t understand what bias actually is.
Well, yeah. He’s a lib. (They found out material reality is biased against liberalism, and so they decided to cancel it).
The conviction that reality has to conform to whatever the mainstream consensus is does seem to be the core of liberal ideology. It’s like the whole ideology is premised on the argumentum ad populum.
is this the same Enlightened Centrist™ that’s under the same name on Twitter? the guy is a terminally online human trainwreck.
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So does this mean that the Liberals confess to market failure to produce accountable media companies. Liberalism with the free market and democracy (not that they support them outside of lipservice and aesthetics especially in non-European diaspora countries) depends on the perfect information of the people and the ability to use the media to deceive the people will cause failure of the Liberal system. The Liberals also have no excuse to blame the people in Western European diaspora countries for their ignorance since they always blame people in the developing countries for their vulnerability to ‘deception’ (read willingly follow Communism if fully informed) by Communists.
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They haven’t made a single comment with any substance. I specifically and repeatedly tried to tease one out of them.
Yeah, but I don’t think they’re trying. This is a tactic frequently used on forums like 4chan where they just flood you with copy pasted nonsense to waste your time and discourage discussion. They know what they’re doing and are acting like that intentionally, which is why I’m worried about this becoming normalized on lemmy.ml. Hopefully it dies out just like the Ukrainian counteroffensive.
Oh yeah, you’re completely right, and we need to start reporting this when they start doing it. It is basically a spam tactic to kill the thread and stop discussion.
They’ll probably filter away away to other instances that block lemmygrad I imagine. Or more likely, go back to their reddit echo chambers where they can feel smart.
I am an incredibly sceptical person, i read dozens of news sources from countries all around the world, private business news, western state funded news, middle eastern, conservative, nationalist, socialist, im obsessed with learning the narratives around the world and how each society interacts with geopolitics. Never in my life have I found the west so full of shit on a subject, maybe aside for wmds, this conflict has been constantly and consistently lied about in every western news source. Its honestly remarkable, i regularly compare and contrast pro ukraine and pro russian sources down to military movements reports of casualties, wins losses, everything and 90% of the time the Russian information is accurate or damn close to accurate and the ukrainians are just outright lying.
I think this is the case because the west isn’t used to fighting an enemy that can match their might.
Think Iraq. Why bother with a narrative? There is a certainty of victory, no damage will come to the west, and iraqi media sure as hell isn’t reaching our audiences. So just make up an excuse, invade, and let people forget it until the next current thing.
But russia? It can fight back, it has political and economic leverage, it forces europe to suffer economically, it can inflict losses and shatter the image of nato equipment being unbeatable.
So the media has to scramble to find reasons why we should keep fighting the russians, because our collective subconscious knows that fighting russia is a bad idea in general. The result of this scrambling is a lot of contrasting narratives that keep contradicting each other. Specially because russia itself has the power to counter western narratives and highlight the falsehoods.
Remember Soledar for example? “the situation is difficult but we are holding” until russians started posting selfies from inside the town and it became clear that the UAF had been routed from there days ago.
Or also when they kept claiming that reddit truesim that “attackers suffer 7 times more casualties” during the battle of Bakhmut an excuse to support the “we are grinding them down by losing” narrative. Now ukraine is attacking and people are asking “wait a second, we were told attackers take 7 times more losses, how is ukraine affording this?”
In short, much like they are not used to fighting competent enemies on the ground, they are not used to fighting competent enemies in the media/internet arena. The result is a clusterfuck of lies covered by other lies as soon as they get found out.
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oh good call, I keep forgetting to link via Lemmygrad
i prefer not to waste my time on speculation from biased sources.
fair question, but I’m sorry that I may disappoint you in saying that I doubt any news source is (or even could be) completely unbiased. major newswire sources do try by only reporting raw facts, but even they let bias slip in when editors choose which facts to report.
So what you’re saying, Brooklyn Man, and expect me to believe, is that you have no beliefs and dont listen to anyone. what a moron
the liberal mind virus got him
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That was an exhausting read.
Are you sure that this is not a bot? The BrooklynMan seems to do basic webscraping, then make arguments independant of the context of the article itself, then doubles down on their incoherent epistemology. is it that hard to automate?
I don’t think it’s fully a bot. There may be some automated elements.
I think he’s a lib that’s having a really hard time with the cognitive dissonance.
What’s the difference?
Slaps knee
Lol it’s honestly hard to tell!
I think he actually is on the team making the lemmy iOS app, I see him post over there a lot, so I think it is a real person.
Just a real person with uh…some politics, shall we say.
