Edit to add my opinion so I’m not just replying “I agree” to 90% of comments. I think it should be legal, properly regulated, taxed and viewed as a profession. I haven’t personally engaged in it but I have no moral objection to it. I do hate the common sentiment that it was the individual’s “only option” though.
I’m in Australia where it is legal and regulated. Each state has slightly different laws, but generally I understand they are about the same. I haven’t studied the law around it, but things like pimping is illegal because it is exploitative, as is anything that resembles sex trafficking. Brothels are much safer than the streets and have to be registered with stringent health checks. They are not allowed to directly sell sex services, rather the sex workers work out of them and the brothel charges room rent, which amount to 50% of the fee. The girls are in charge of what happens in the room, which by law includes a health checks. There are also massage parlours and spas, which provide erotic massage with a happy ending. I occasionally attend a nearby spa place which is really nice, you have the traditional one by one introduction to the girls, then the manager comes over to ask who you are interested in, you pay them, and the girl comes over when ready and takes you downstairs to the private spa rooms. Besides the spa, there is a massage table for the happy ending if you choose. They can offer “extras” which you pay them directly for, it never involves the house. There are also escorts, the same as anywhere in the world, they come to you, good for the travelling businessman in a hotel.
Even in countries were it is legal and has some kind of regulation, it still has exploitative character. Not for all but for many. And I think forced labor, of different degrees, is more common then you think.
Even when regulated and legal, we need to think about the careers after sex work. Can those people freely transfer into a new position without discrimination?
And since there is discrimination, worker rights, and often women and gay rights, are neglected.
To establish a safe working space for sex workers it is not enough to regulate and make it legal. You need to actively support each group individually and make it clear, that as for every other form of employment you have rights and someone else is actively fighting for it. It is not enough to tell people they have rights and they have to fight all by themselves. Especially when we have established that human trafficking, exploitation, femizide, and so much more are common.
So I think the answer should not be: just make it legal and write regulation. It should be: what actually is a safe working space for all, no matter if selfemployed or working in a brothel.
In my opinion, there are two key could issues with it: societal attitudes and desperation.
Society clearly discriminates sex workers, especially women, as sex work is associated with promiscuity and little limits. Ex-sexual workers are more likely to be harassed and face unwanted sexualized interactions. They have issues finding a long-term partner and may have to hide their past from everyone.
Another issue is that many people choose sexual careers not because they want it, but because it’s one of the few ways to make money quickly. This experience can be heavily traumatic, not only because of the aforementioned societal attitudes, but because of violation of intimacy and losing agency over own body.
So, legalization of prostitution is, at best, harm reduction at this stage.
Important nuance: there absolutely are people who enjoy working in the sex industry. Ideally, healthy incentives and shift in social attitudes would allow them to work in this sphere and others not to. But as things stand, we’re very much not there yet.
Regulated with provisions for safety. I’m all for the idea it should be in a specific license location, like love hotels or massage parlors or something like that. No going to someones house or a different hotel.
And unionized, and the employer pays for (without touching employee pay):
- PPE (including gloves, dental dams, and male and female condoms, which are mandatory for any and all physical contact that includes genitals, mucous membranes, feet, or non-intact skin).
- regular STD testing
- vaccinations
- optional pharmacologic prophylaxis
- building security
- both bedside and wearable panic alarms
- identity monitoring and protection / assistance removing their personal information from publicly accessible records.
Every room should be required to have a poster listing employee rights.
Aside from pricing differently for specific services (handjob vs blowjob etc) tipping is illegal.
No employee (particularly owners or supervisors) are allowed to receive service at their own location or any owned by a same parent company.
The owner and any shift supervisors are required to take a class on these regulations and sit for and pass a licensure exam.
Independent workers can receive a special, less restrictive license (that includes basic sex ed but mostly focuses on informing them of their rights and that independent means independent not “your boss just doesn’t want to get a license” and keeping people with intellectual disabilities or low educational level from being misinformed of their rights as a sex worker).
They worker will never face charges for not having a license but their boss or any John (Jane?) / client who can’t prove the sex worker or company was licensed (or that they were significantly or intentionally misled) can.
Much of what you said I agree with, but let me say that an independent license with less restrictions will be way more favorable and harder to secure than a location license. An independent license should not remove regulations, but remove security. Being licensed through a house should guarantee the availability of condoms and such, security personnel, testing, and so on. An independent license should require std testing regularly, but also means a John/Jane has to sign a waiver that they understand this is an independent.
I also would like to state that a house should never be run like strip clubs are where the strippers are independent contractors who have to pay the club. Workers should be employees just like ia regular job. Just a license.
Another point should be that a worker needs to be responsible for their own license renewal. The license for renewal (on time) should be free if you are in a house, and tied to the company that owns the house. If a worker gets a better offer at another company, a new license is required, but not if it’s a transfer of locations within a company.
And in the point of the company, there should be limitations on how many houses they can own, and how many workers in each house. Maybe that can be at a local level, like I can’t have a house called Billy’s House of Poon right across the street from another place I own called Madam Sapphire Day Spa. Zoning laws. I live in an area that saw an explosion of dispensaries after weed went legal, and now most of them are all owned by corporations that have no problem opening new shops in the same market. Avoid that.
I could go on, build out a framework for all the legal stuff, but I’ll keep it simple.
And honestly a lot of these would probably need to be tested top see what works best, but the core point is that in an ideal world there would be an ongoing effort to make sure the worker is given as much power over the situation as possible.
As long as the industry has regulations that help keep the prostitutes safe ( generic things like STD testing and time off to clear that all up, ways to deal with rowdy, rough customers, etcetera ) In have zero problem as long as the workers are consenting and at least in their mid to late 20s to keep the creepiest of people out.
It’s legal and regulated. Seems to work fine. I don’t know anyone who wants to outlaw it.
You know what would give women power over men? Allowing them to charge money for sex. This is why it’s so demonized. It should be legalized so it can be regulated with health standards, and standards of engagement that protect everyone, like condom use, and having to do monthly or weekly STD/HIV checks. Make it 21+ ID is required to buy and sell services.
Nah, that’s not it. Germany has legal and - theoretically - regulated prostitution, and society is not meaningfully different than, say, France in that redgard as far as I can tell.
There are other issues associated with it, but just that one argument alone doesn’t seem to work based on what I’ve seen.
As a dude, i sucked a dick for big money to some rich old guy. With inflation, over 900 dollars for like nothing. So im biased
I think it needs to be legalized world wide to give it an opportunity to be regulated. If its already happening might as well capitalism the industry. Its going to happen either way, or the world will continue to have deep state sex clubs.
how do i do this that sounds awesome
Many complaints against prostitution also apply to trading labor for money/shelter in general. People just have a stronger emotional response.
Emotional responses are rarely a good foundation for policy.
Prostitution should be legal with safety regulations. All labor should have protections, unions, and such, to protect them from being abused by the wealthy.
Some specific things would probably remain illegal or disallowed, in the same sense that you’re not allowed to work construction without safety gear. People can wear condoms as easily as hard hats and hi-viz vests.
Never had anything to do with it personally, but just like with drugs it should be legal and regulated because it’s impossible to prohibit it.
yes, sex work is not going away, it’s too damn popular
sex workers need to be protected and legalised and helped if in situations like addiction
Hard agree.
Regulate it, tax it, protect the workers and users. Prevent the spread of diseases and use the money to ensure their futures.
Minimize harm, maximize happiness.
Failure to do so is a failure of society.
After all, we already have so many people making money on onlyfans and through doing pornography, which is legalized prostitution anyway, so the people that do that in a non-video scenario should have at least the same protections.
It was such a generic comment … lol. I agree with you,
The only thing more certain to exist till the end of time than prostitution is people complaining about it. I like it because it makes something explicit that is implicit in so many apparently non transactional relationships. There are so many people who say prostitution should be banned, who are also in relationships/marriages where they expect sex for shelter, food, safety or whatever. Prostitution makes the transaction clear. People point to the exploitative nature of it, but then reveal their real agenda by also rejecting the idea of making it safer for the people selling access to their bodies. The whole thing is a massively hypocritical pile of double standards. Mix into that cultures with backwards patriarchal religious doctrines and that’s where you get the really angry people who talk about dishonor and stoning and all that jazz. Prostitution has been around since there were people and will always be around. When the puritans are in charge it just hides for a bit. This has been my TED talk, thanks lol
“Kyle, every boy pays for kisses. Do you know what I am saying? If you got a girl and she kisses you, sooner or later you’re paying for it. You gotta take her out to lunch, take her to a movie, and then spend time listening to all her stupid problems. Look, look at Stan right there. He’s got to sit there and listen to all her stupid motherf___ing problems 'cause she kisses him. If you ask me, that’s a lot more than the $5 my company charges.”
It would be a fine profession if it weren’t for capitalism
As a former prostitute its work and legitamite work but it needs more protection
Username checks out bless
Absolutely should be legal and taxed, with rules and regulations in place to protect clients and workers.
I pretty much do have moral objections to it, its fundamentally gross to me, but its not going to stop and id rather these prostitutes work in a safe place and pay their taxes like the rest of us than get their passports taken by a guy named The Scorpion with a spider Web tattooed on his neck.
Based ❤️ Great take IMO
Should’ve called himself the Spidion
It should be legal, safe, and taxed
Same as belief. Churches have to pay the same as everyone. They are a corporation.
Same as belief.
how do you know someone is an edgelord atheist?
Don’t worry, they’ll tell you. They’ll crowbar it in wherever
how do you know someone is an edgelord atheist?
why, the same with defensive religious people. They’ll see a criticism on churches and they will take it as a personal attack
Please let me know how relevant belief is to regulating and taxing prostitution. Like, he had that shit waiting to go and found any place to cram it.
he said that churches are taxed and regulated and whatnot, as prostitution should be too.
Maybe saying “same as belief” wasn’t good, but the rest of the comment makes it clear they’re talking about churches. Not to mention the demonisation of prostitution that comes from those churches, so i find it relevant.
Or maybe there’s other parallels you can draw between belief and prostitution, like being roped into one against your will, or maybe it being “the only option”, or being the only thing some desperate people look to for help, etc.
Well, belief used in the sense of how most “churches” use belief, as a way to indoctrinate, kind of like the modern church.
You can draw many dots and see it can be relevant to the discussion as a comparison, but it’s easier to offload the mental work to others, no?
he said that churches are taxed and regulated and whatnot, as prostitution should be too.
but that’s the thing, they are not, so he just picked his spot to throw shade.
Yep
no tax on just the tip
Knowing how small businesses are taxed more, just the tip would be 2x tax
if you pull out the big beautiful bill, you get the tip tax free
