I haven’t updated any of my documents yet, and I saw that the disgusting bill that’s pending in Indiana would make it impossible for trans people to change their gender marker. Although there has been an executive order stopping the department of health from processing court-ordered name changes there for the past year. I don’t think Indiana is ever going to do something that would help a trans person…
What are my options? Am I stuck with incorrect or mismatched documents forever?
The Nazis were eventually ousted from Germany. The same thing will be true of the States. Hang tight and have an escape plan if things get too sketchy. Documentation isn’t something I’d be prioritising now tbh.
Yeah, I’ve had that thought too - probably better to keep a low profile right now.
On the other hand, although I don’t pass now, if I do eventually, I don’t want to out myself to every cop and TSA agent, you know?
I have some French Canadian ancestry, so I’m working on applying for my Canadian citizenship by descent. (Maybe another reason not to mess with my documents rn?)
Blessedly, I’m no longer in Indiana, and Michigan has much better civil rights protections for trans folks
That’s good. You might also consider trying to get a work/study visa to somewhere in Europe. Portugal and Malta are apparently the best countries for legal protection and social acceptance.
Would Europe allow a study visa for someone who already has a degree from the US? Unless I go for a PhD, it would be my second go around in university
you might look for a work visa in that case, particularly if you are a skilled worker in an industry that is in high demand by the target country (it depends on the individual country as to the opportunities); you will need a passport in that case, and at least updating your name on your passport would be wise if you plan to leave the country (even though you currently cannot change your gender marker).
I’m pretty sure you just need to get accepted. But also PhDs pay a relatively decent wage in the Nordic countries. So a PhD is a viable option, especially if you are published. That gets you 4 years. Also I believe in Sweden and Finland, you get a sword with your PhD.
Name changes take a while to make happen, it took a better part of a year for me to get my name updated on all my documents, so if you start to pass and have outdated documents that could be a risk. I recommend updating documents ASAP.
Yeah escape plan is the hard part for many since without proof of citizenship you can’t fly anymore and it’s a large country. I live close enough to Canada and have a car that I could drive in a few hours, just getting across the border will be difficult without a valid passport, which also requires a birth certificate.
How are you at kayaking? There are plenty of shorter crossings between the states and Canada on the great lakes. From what I can see. I would in no way cross at an official border crossing. If you arrive in a country by boat I think you’re supposed to report to the local police office, but I’m sure noone would meet you on the beach to enforce that.
I’m on the other side of the country, so kayaking may or may not be possible for someone without experience through the straight. Maybe around Victoria/San Juan Islands? Anyway, it’s something I’ve thought about, but land crossings in rural areas may be easier. Otherwise, there’s the mountains, but I’m not good in the extreme cold, lol.
You can use the time until summer to train. Kayaking is easy and a lot faster than rowing swimming or running. It is 100% what I’d do if I had to cross the border with sketchy documents. Actually the only country I could get to by kayak is Russia so I definitely wouldn’t do that 😂
If you live in a state that lets you update your state issued ID (driver’s license or otherwise), your birth certificate doesn’t really come up particularly often. I changed my name and ID a few years ago, the only time my birth certificate has been relevant outside of the paperwork to get my name changed with SSA, my ID, passport, bank, etc. has been starting a new job.
My birth state does allow it to be changed, but it requires getting some paperwork notarized and completed by my doctor, and I have not gotten around to it yet as it doesn’t really come up often.
Tl;dr: if you live somewhere that lets you self ID gender for your driver’s license, getting your name changed and selecting the correct gender marker on your photo ID does result in mismatched documents, but it isn’t usually relevant nor does it come up regularly.
Yeah my state doesn’t care what I put, but my birth state is being an ass. Without a birth certificate I can’t prove citizenship and so can’t get a Real ID or Passport, so for me the real issue is travel. And I need to travel for some surgery which means I can’t get the surgery.
I have my SSA name change (gender can’t be updated anymore but it’s not that important) and my driver’s license, so I can still work for now. But the ultimate goal by the far right, if the Epstein files are to be believed, is to make trans people dependent on illegal sex work to criminalize our existence (and make money off of us for Epstein as a “pimp”) and from being able to flee the country.
I have a Real ID. It has my correct gender despite my birth certificate not matching. You just need to show your birth certificate (yes it outs you to the DMV worker) and your certificate of name change, along with your proof of residence in the state you’re getting it in. I’ve never had a driver’s license that wasn’t a Real ID.
Passports are currently fucked, it’s true. You can probably get one with the correct name since it’s changed with the SSA, but it might have the incorrect gender, though I don’t know the specifics of that situation currently. I know some people have been able to legally fight back and get issued a correct passport under the current regime so it is potentially possible.
As for the far right and their goals, I’m fairly confident that we’re far off from that particular goal, in certain parts of the country at least. I’m hoping that we can avert that entirely, but plenty of shitty state governments are working towards it unfortunately.
It’s not the gender that’s the main issue with the state ID, only the passport. I asked when I updated my driver’s license and they said I had to separately reapply for a Real ID and that had to follow federal guidelines which includes proof of citizenship or legal residency which would mean a birth certificate or passport (which requires a birth certificate for people born here) with my legal name. I no longer have a valid birth certificate with my legal name until my birth state agrees to update it. It’s shitty, but the federal government won’t acknowledge a legal court order for name change on top of the old birth certificate like they do for name changed with marriage certificates, and so the state doesn’t allow it for Real ID. And my current driver’s license has no connection at all to my Real ID license in my old name, so there’s no simple way to prove I’m a citizen right now in a way that’s acceptable to the silly requirements despite my picture being on my ID and passport with my old name and still having the same last name. Cruelty is the goal.
Your birth certificate with your deadname combined with your court order for your name change legally satisfies the Real ID requirements. I’ve had a Real ID from 2 different states, and have had 0 issues when presenting that combination, along with my social security card for extra insurance.
You do have to specifically choose the Real ID paperwork at the DMV though, they can have different forms available for Real ID vs basic driver’s license.
It’s not sufficient in my state. They specifically need the birth certificate, passport, or equivalent proof of citizenship to match the name. Or for a marriage certificate or divorce decree to prove name change. Right now at least, court orders for other purposes than marriage or divorce are not accepted. Not sure if it’s something new, but it’s the current requirement.
Passport also requires gender match between document used for identification and the one used for citizenship proof, so I didn’t look at if that has the same name change documentation requirement. But either way, the birth certificate changes are holding up my ability to get either of them, currently.
If you don’t mind me asking, which state are you in? I’m 99% sure a court order name change certificate paired with a birth certificate should be sufficient to get a Real ID compliant ID in any state, even the ones especially hostile to trans people.
Edit: side note, I love your profile picture
Or at least until those laws change, yeah. There’s not much you can do.
Mismatched documents could sometimes be an issue, but having documentation like the court ordered name change showing there was a legal gender change as well is usually enough to show the paper-trail. So I would overall still recommend updating whatever documents you still can.
You could also potentially update the name on the birth certificate even if not the gender marker.
Or alternatively leave the documents alone entirely, so they can’t use data crawlers to identify you as trans. Remember all the concentration camps already exist, they just need to fill them. Keeping as low a profile as possible would be an excellent idea right now.
Maybe, but then you out yourself entirely - I have female genitals, a female body, people look at me and see a woman … having a male gender marker and male name on my driver’s license or other documents would be very confusing and would obviously out me.
It’s different if you’re not taking HRT, but once you are medically transitioning there are significant reasons to try to update documents and pass as much as possible.
Also, the concentration camp idea is some projected fear of what the future holds for trans people in the US, and an unlikely one compared to continued barriers to transition and criminalization that leads to individuals being found guilty of “gender identity fraud” or “cross-dressing” and then ending up in jails or prisons to be detransitioned (much like already happens in Florida). This eventuality is very different than a Holocaust style concentration camp exclusively for trans people and a single moment of rounding up all the trans people.
Not denying the possibility, but I think it’s foolish to ignore practical concerns like updating your name and gender marker where you can in the face of a currently non-existent threat on the possibility it could exist later while the threats of outing yourself with outdated documentation now is very real.
skavau is a clown
Just as long as you are aware that it’s essentially Peter Thiel and Elon musk that run the usa currently. And if centrally stored documentation doesn’t show any changes then the federal government are not going to suspect much. And if you live in a state that’s more progressive then a male name on a driver’s license is easy enough to explain to a cop given the current political climate.
Elon Musk was booted from the administration a while ago and continues to go back-and-forth between conflict and appeasement with Trump.
I also wouldn’t say Peter Thiel “runs the US” as much as he just has influence and is facilitating the Trump administration, e.g. providing technology to support ICE.
You have far too much optimism for police in progressive states, the police and correctional officers in those states are not particularly safe and there have been many lawsuits and reports about mistreatment of trans people in “progressive” states like California, Illinois, New York, etc. at the hands of police.
58% of trans people who interacted with police when the police knew they were trans reported mistreatment:
Progressive states still habitually ignore their state laws and put trans women in jails and prisons with men, e.g. in California.
Since OP lives in Michigan it’s well within their ability to update their driver’s license to a female name and gender marker, and I think they should obviously do so for their own safety - particularly since they are on estrogen and at some point will likely no longer appear male.
Well fuck. I am intrigued by the notion of changing the name only when I can’t change the marker, and then updating both anywhere else where I can. I wonder if there is any legal assistance nearby that can help me with the nuances of the forms and stuff
You need a court ordered name change first, you go to the local court and file a petition to change your name, you have to provide some documentation proving you are who you are, and there is usually a small fee. Then you show up to your court date and the judge might ask some basic questions like whether you’re changing your name to evade lenders or to commit fraud, and as long as you don’t have a criminal record and are changing your name for gender-change reasons, the judge just signs the court order. You get some amount of official signed & notarized copies for free, but I would recommend paying to get extras.
Then once you have that court order, you can use it to update your name elsewhere - like your birth certificate, your driver’s license, your passport, etc. A lot of times they take and keep your court order, which is why I mentioned paying for extra copies.
Each form is different but it’s not that complicated and shouldn’t require assistance. There are plenty of online resources to help you navigate this stuff, e.g. https://transequality.org/resources/name-and-gender-marker-change-101
im not american, im just curious.
if you moved to a different state, would you still need to register in your “birth state”? or just in whatever state you live in?
Both, depending on which document. Usually changing your birth certificate is the first step, and those are held by the state health department in the state you were born in, regardless of where you live now. Your driver’s license, though, you change with whatever state you’re currently residing in that issued the license. And then your passport is dealt with by the federal government. It’s a mess lol
Thanks so much for responding!!
The birth certificate is the issue then? Is that not a transferable document at all?
Again, apologies for my vaguely related questions. Im just very interested in how it works for you
edit - if you moved out of the USA to somewhere else and became a citizen, would your birth certificate transfer? Or still beholden to whatever your state decides?
Oh, you’re totally fine! AFAIK, your birth certificate stays with the state you were born in, with no way to transfer it elsewhere. I’ve heard of people in a similar boat to me who were further along changing their docs, but their birth state wouldn’t cooperate on the birth certificate
That’s a good question about moving out of the country though, I’m not sure. Since I’d get my citizenship certificate now, as an adult, I would guess that I’d just need to update the gender marker on my Canadian citizenship certificate, and then who cares what the US thinks.
I really don’t know though, I think that’s a bridge I’d cross once I manage to get my citizenship in Canada
Not sure, but I think your American birth certificate becomes much less important if you emigrate.
Your birth certificate unfortunately cannot transfer, it’s always local to where you were born.
Pretty much. Barring major leadership changes, I’m stuck with mine forever because it has the word “Texas” on it. A state i haven’t existed in since i was 4 years old.
