You must log in or # to comment.
Age verification is a red line. I will not comply
Remember when we told people “they’ll make it illegal to use a VPN” and we got snarky replies like “it’s not enforceable LOL”.
The fuck it isn’t. Traffic coming from a VPN? That’s a paddlin’, kiddo.
They’re not even trying to masquerade it as… oh, yes, they’re still trying to masquerade as a “think of the children!” measure. Those fuckers.
People can use this to look like local traffic.
it seems very unsafe
Their software is open source.
The problem for most users is: they actually want to look like traffic from somewhere else…
I meant to say residential traffic of whatever country they connect to instead of a data center.
This seems a bit sketchy to me. How am I getting paid for participating when it’s completely free?
From https://docs.ur.io/provider:
The network is free to use with a data cap, where users can become a supporter to get a higher data cap and priority speeds.
The pedophile class has the audacity to dictate access to a utility under the guise of protecting the children
Websites need to block all Utah traffic. If their leaders are going to be shitheads, then no traffic for you until you elect new leaders.
Traffic coming from Utah? Believe it or not, jail.
they will use this specifically to prosecute whoever they choose and will only enforce it for that reason
Problematic now that Firefox has a free VPN with 50gb / mo.
Wait… this is specifically about websites?
Easy solution: stick your website behind a CDN. That way, people are using a VPN to contact a CDN, and only the CDN ever connects to your website.
And if Utah thinks two degrees of separation isn’t enough… well, it’s likely that every legislator in Utah is two degrees away from someone who will break this law, so they should obviously be the first to be subject to its penalties.
Oh those legislators are two degrees away from something being broken, and it ain’t this dumbass law.
Easy solution: stick your website behind a CDN.
I would say the easy solution is to stop serving content to residents of the state
Well that’s the problem. If you’re on a VPN, the site doesn’t know where you’re coming from. So either all VPN services ban Utah, or all websites ban VPNs. It’s a very insidious ploy to ban any anonymity on the internet. It’s essentially letting Utah set the rules for the entire network. And it doesn’t really work anyway. I can create a VPS and set up tailscale or something similar and all my traffic goes through that server. No block of knowable VPN IPs that a website can block. So either Utah blocks all services like tailscale, which is not going to happen, or this is just pointless.
If two computers are connected to the same network, there will always be a way around these sort of restrictions.
all websites ban VPN
I don’t think that’s technically possible under the current structure of the internet.
Now, if they move to: you must sign in with a state assigned ID before you access anything anywhere… that technically could work.
There’s services that not only check for known VPN servers, but also for IPs in datacenter IP blocks. So using a VPS could in theory also be blocked.
I set up a VPS as a VPN server just for me. There’s sites have definitely done this. Reddit for one. I get cloudflare captchas a lot as well.
Yeah, and you could also block all Albanians from shopping at your store by asking them as they come in: “Are you Albanian?” Yeah, you have a photo-catalog of known Albanians, and some general descriptions of what Albanians look like, but are you really going to actually, successfully block all Albanians? No. And the more you try, the more you’re going to block non-Albanians just because they “look like they might be an Albanian…”
Apologies to Albanians, you’re just an alphabetically early example - nothing about Albainia or Albainians in particular, the same could be said for Bulgarians, Croatians, Danish, Estonians, Finnish, Greeks, etc.
You’re right they could. But I’m a systems architect who deals with university wide networks so I know what a cluster fuck that would be. It would be absolutely unmanageable. I’d wager there is no way in hell they are gonna do that.
I’m hopeful that an adult in the room is going to show how unworkable this is gonna be but who knows.
It would be absolutely unmanageable.
They probably know this, and are pushing it anyway - for the votes and the lobbyist backing. (most) voters don’t know how ridiculous it is from the technical perspective, and the lobbyists are only looking for their own financial advantages which often come from chaos.
an adult in the room
They’re all adults, just not adults who care what they break.
There is no way to know someone is connecting to you via a VPN. They just blacklist known IP addresses, so there isn’t really a way to implement this. Sure, you can blacklist well known VPN providers, but anyone can rent a PC in another location to VPN through.
Yeah this was exactly my point. And this only works if the IPs for the VPN are fairly static. I have no idea if they are. But given that I have heard discussions about doing this I assume that is the case. I mean I have done exactly this (using a VPS) to get around some of the restrictions I see.
How can you tell if a connection is from a vpn? Do you need a list of all the vpn end points for all providers around the world?
Yeah indexes of VPN provider IP ranges (and VPS providers and such) already exist. If you want to get around that you need to find a residential ISP SOCKS proxy provider.
I think that’s their starting point - joke’s on them, anybody anywhere can setup new vpn services at almost no cost…
There are lists of VPN and tor IPs that can be used for blocking. That will work for commercial VPN services, but not self hosted VPNs.
How else are they supposed to find under age girls to marry
Family reunion
This is like holding a car manufacturer liable when a teenager drives to a liquor store and uses a fake ID.
Or holding the liquor store liable when a person with a real ID drives to the store in a stolen car
More holding the liquor store liable, which is what already happens.
Someone explain TOR to them
TOR is a great way to put yourself on a short list of “people who might be up to something.” It’s almost a guarantee that many, if not most, TOR nodes are run by or otherwise 100% monitored by various and sundry intelligence agencies around the world.
The recent banning of pornhub access through much of the U.S. Southeast may actually have been an attempt to flood these agencies with zero value traffic to analyze.
Tor exit nodes are public and even easier to block than VPNs.
Irrelevant. The end goal is they can say “you connected to a site without going through our checkpoint, you’re liable”. Then the fun begins.
The teshnikully… discussions are useless against this. Heck, given how some networks operate, I would not be surprised if some people would fall into this without even knowing.
Just wait for the “mandatory government issued World ID” required to access internet websites…
It’s a strict liability law.
If the state chooses to prosecute the site then all they need to do is prove 1. That the user was actually in Utah and 2. That they did business with the site.
It doesn’t matter if the user’s IP shows that they are on the Moon. The law doesn’t take into account their knowledge or intent, only what actually happened.
It’s like manslaugher or statutory rape laws. What the person intended or knew doesn’t matter, only what actually happened.
This really makes me wonder if they are planning IPv6 blocks specifically for lunar or extraterrestrial use…or if NASA and other agencies would just use their own ranges on the moon.
Who would be in charge? Like here, ARIN/RIPE/APNIC handle their own global regions. Would there be another agency in charge of the whole moon? Or would the existing agencies just have jurisdiction over the lunar regions colonized by their member states?
You’re in luck. The IETF published a document on the topic just last year:
https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-many-tiptop-ip-architecture-01.html
☺️
Was this all about getting rid of vpns…
Web services and websites should block all Utah IP addresses and redirect to page explaining that because they cannot tell who’s using a VPN, their only option is to block all of Utah.
Yes, I understand how dumb that is, but sometimes you have to fight stupid with stupider.
Even worse, that would not necessarily help. If someone’s accessing your website through a VPN that’s not located in that state, you would not block it… then become liable.
Better block everything at this point -_-
The great firewall of Utah, all your pron must be inspected by government officials prior to delivery…
That just means that people in Utah would need to use a VPN to access those sites.
Which is hilarious, and a predictable result when your legislature is mostly filled with people who could’ve retired decades ago…
Web services and websites should block all Utah IP addresses
That won’t work on a VPN, though. The VPN will say the user is coming from outside the state. That’s the whole point of the VPN.
right, meaning everybody will need to get a VPN, defeating the purpose of the law
Web services and websites should block all Utah IP addresses and redirect to page explaining that because they cannot tell who’s using a VPN, their only option is to block all of Utah.
But VPN users using a VPN outside of Utah will still get through.
What Utah (and likely other dumb states soon) are trying to do is to force age verification worldwide through a state law, forcing websites to verify the age of every user from anywhere, because any user who accesses the site from anywhere in the world might possibly be someone in Utah using a VPN.
I understand.
Which is why I’m suggesting they preemptively block everyone in Utah. Protesting needs to inconvenience people and good protests redirect that anger towards those in power.
“Utah’s new law us makes us legally liable for providing our services to residence in Utah using a VPN. As that is not technically possible, we have no choice but to cease operating in Utah, or allowing Utah residents to use our services.”
But whether or not that particular strategy would be an effective from a protest, is a moot point, as big tech is behind these types of age verification and use identification laws, and those are the only websites and services with a large enough user base to make a difference here.
Which is why I’m suggesting they preemptively block everyone in Utah.
Pornhub and other porn sites already do this.
They would still be liable for transmitting content to a Utah resident using a VPN to appear as though they were in neighboring Arizona.
Porn sites have been doing that for years now.
And that’s exactly what they want.
They don’t want every website to do it though.
They don’t want every website to do it
Are you sure?
I like the thought, but it won’t work. The big websites won’t be willing to lose money they don’t have to, and like ID laws that give them reasons to extract more data from users anyway.
They actually want to avoid the liability of storing someone’s id.
The government wants to make these things illegal, but they also want to track every person on the internet through their government ID, so they create the problem (age restriction and id checks) because they have the planned solution: digital id for every computer!
Do you have your computer license? Do you? You think the internet is a psy-op and Big Brother’s watching you? Just wait until a government admin message pops up on your screen because you visited the wrong website.
You’re getting fined for spreading misinformation or receiving a letter for libel due to some offhand tweet about some famous person. Don’t worry about receiving a notice in the mail, if you have a printer they’ll make it print your ticket for you immediately.
Its easier to implement and less crazy than blocking VPNs. It also pushes back on other jurisdictions doing the same. I’d be amazed if this isn’t what happens.
Your right, but I can imagine what it would be like, and that’s something.
No, the better solution is for sites that age verification is pointless to block Utah. If you make a mobil app check the GPS or IP and disabl the app if they are in Utah. People should go on sites like Yelp in mass and put down votes on every establishment in Utah so that ths site becomes useless for anyone in Utah. Pretty much just destroy all tech and internet for all things Utah.
Yes, I understand how dumb that is
i don’t think you do. residents of utah don’t have to use vpn with endpoint in utah, so in order for your “gotcha” to work, they would have to block whole world. since most people will choose endpoint far from them, it would probably be enough to block anything but utah…
That’s the point…
It would be protest against Utah’s dumb law, with an even dumber response, that’s designed specifically to inconvenience people in Utah…
so you would bully the people being bullied by this law to protest the law that bullies them? well that would show them!
yes, it would. their elected officials did this.
“The people being bullied” lol, they are called voters and they voted for the government that does this. Americans can fuck right off with their victim mentality. Go fix your shithole country instead
omg, i have hit some loser vain with this comment 😂
yeah, the people are voters, some of them voted for someone, some voted for someone else, and trying to bully people you claim to be protecting still makes you pathetic loser.
Unless you are willing to admit that Utah is a dictatorship, then yes “bullying” the people is very appropriate.
This is an issue with american thinking, the sanctity of normality. You think doing anything that effects the every person is somehow off limits, you think the daily life of the people is unassailable. Its the same nonsense over and over across everything and I think why americans always talk about how “nothing can be done” about any issue that comes up. The us of a is flying off a cliff in multiple ways but americans will put up with it as long as they don’t notice a change in their daily life.
It is why you are all ok with war, right up until the gas price goes up.
It is why you are all ok with losing liberties, right up until it effects you personally.
It is why you are all ok with your media and entertainment pushing usa #1 bullshit that always ends up “back to normal”, right up until you can’t ignore reality.
It is why you are all ok with a clearly broken and non democratic system, right up until nether party is able to guarantee your lifestyle.
It is why you are all ok with draconian “purity” laws being put into place, right up until sites you like to use realize that Utah is not worth the work to be there.
hey doc, here is one who forgot to take their pills!
This is an issue with american thinking
You think doing
it is why you are all ok with
it is why you are all ok with
it is why you are all ok with
it is why you are all ok with
it is why you are all ok with
you do know there are people in the world that are not americans, right?
“bullying” the people is very appropriate.
no, it is not. once you are done with this tantrum, i suggest to talk to a mental health professional and ask them for explanation.
no, it is not. once you are done with this tantrum, i suggest to talk to a mental health professional and ask them for explanation.
Yes, it is. You americans will get to see the results of your madness first hand over the next few years, there is no “tantrum” over it, just the explanation of the consequences you are all facing from thinking you are special.
I think you’re confused on the concept of protesting.
Or maybe you’re just a fan of this law, or don’t think it’s a big deal.
Either way, I disagree.
To date, the only countries that have made progress in blocking VPN traffic with some success are authoritarian regimes with ISP-level surveillance.
You know you’re on to something when the only playbook you can find was written by the Chinese government.
Even the Chinese government struggles tracking people using VPN’s, Utah is in for a rude awakening.
The horseshoe theory of mass surveillance
Put Utah websites under a VPN…mic drop
