- cross-posted to:
- privacy@programming.dev
- cross-posted to:
- privacy@programming.dev
Found it interesting, something worth keeping an eye on. Hasn’t released yet, planned date end of 2026.
Based in Copenhagen, I think.
The founder did answer some questions on reddit (user ColeFromWalt)
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Give me a swipe for loyalty cards or the g wallet UI.
I got curve to hit this need but the UI is janky and annoying.
Any bets on how long it’ll take Disney to sue them?
No source no trust. Where source code?
No data harvesting, no Al, no crypto. Just a predictable wallet application that respects your privacy.
God that’s refreshing to see.
Still waiting for widespread GNU Taler adoption. Any day now…
Interesting it’s the first time I hear about it, just read a summary of how it works. Is it used anywhere that you know of?
Also, who can be the exchange in practice? Banks?
Switzerland has GNU Taler setup. But only a few shops support it atm.
Here’s a map showing the shops that allow it%: https://map.taler-ops.ch/
Intersting, why Biel out of all places?
I understand they need that information to process payments, but whenever a company I have never heard of before asks for my credit card information it makes alarm bells go off in my mind
How can I trust this unknown company with my credit card details?
They say: “€10 a year sustains infrastructure and annual audits.”
However, I don’t, at a glance, see any audits on their website. And yeah, I’m going to want one of those before I trust my CC info to some random startup (it says: “Your card details never leave your device.” But the software is seemingly proprietary, and without an audit, those words are empty.)
Yep, will be waiting for published third party security audit results and compliance reports. About open-source he said :
Correct! It’s not open source and at least for the foreseeable future, I’m planning on keeping it closed. Like JG mentioned, because of internal audit requirements that I’ll be going through in Visa and MC over the next few months, I need to ease that pain as much as possible. They treat open source finance products with increased scrutiny.
You don’t have to.
As far as I can make out, by the time that they launch, they will have been audited and will have many other checks done, which should be enough for many.
EU at least, has advertising regulations that should protect us enough to check out the app upon viewing any claims that they will have made by then.
So by the time it comes to us actually being able to use the app, and assuming that they will have advertised and marketed it as a privacy focused alternative to Apple and Google pay, it should be trustworthy enough.
Their security page makes it seem like your information is fairly untouched. But yea would not trust anybody with that either if I don’t have access to the source code. (or other independent people that are smarter).
I did actually went back to using my CC directly and not over Apple Pay to be less reliant mostly. But iirc one thing apps also do is providing an virtual card to the merchant obfuscating your real one. Not sure how much that’s worth in practice but it is kinda cool.
never trust any company
How many EU countries does it plan to support?
Will they support Graphene OS?
Nice, that would be the killer feature!
I use graphene os and i pay with the app of my bank. They just included a tap to pay function a few month ago. Its Working perfectly. For all features of the app one has to install play services , but i can have Them deactivated and still pay.
Nice, which bank is that?
GLS Bank
I’m using curve for tap-to-pay on graphene. Not exactly a privacy revelation, but then its visa/mastercard anyways, so… Shrug
I failed the initial Curve human verification and now I’m banned from making an account :(
you’re not missing on anything. Curve is utter trash
They’ve denied my registration without providing a reason, and also played a fool when I asked to delete all my data. I’d say I dodged the bullet.
I am in Switzerland so no Curve here, but I probably wouldn’t wanna deal with them either way due to their terms.
Luckily most stores here take Twint which is 100% Swiss and does work fine on Graphene. I mostly need an NFC solution for shopping in Germany and travelling.
Credit cards were a terrible mistake. digitizing money is a good idea but how did we go from cash (mostly anonymous and peer to peer) to credit cards (completely centralized, identity based, monetized for-profit platform)
I hope one day to see governments make a jump to crypto and save us all from this shit (no, not btc or shitcoins)
You lament the loss of anonymity (and presumably privacy) but then you wish for governments to adopt cryptocurrencies. That does not track.
Crypto is neither anonymous nor private. Every transaction is written to a public ledger that anyone can see. You can easily track each transaction a crypto-wallet makes, and with a bit of effort it is usually not difficult to match a wallet with a person.
Crypto is less private than the traditional banking system. At least with banks your transactions can only be reviewed internally.
As far as I know, a blockchain solves a very specific kind of problem you never hear people lamenting about: trust. If you can’t trust your bank or the local shop, and those two can’t trust each other, let alone you, that’s when you need a blockchain. This tool is for situations where everyone is constantly worried about someone else screwing you over and running away with your money.
If there is sufficient trust among all three parties, you don’t need a blockchain. It solves a problem you don’t have.
Crypto is neither anonymous nor private
Monero is. It’s designed for that from the ground up. It’s the best use case for crypto imo.
Unfortunately governments don’t like it so forced all the big exchanges to stop trading it.
I think we’re better going back to cash.
I don’t think it’s a coincidence that the high rates of inflation, especially on food and other groceries that don’t really seem to be reflected in headline rates, happened around the same time that we went cashless. It’s enabled people to ignore how the numbers went up,
There’s something about handling over cash that makes you feel the price you’re paying.
You are mistaken. Sure, bitcoin is like that, but there are alternatives.
Monero is private and anonymous, and its not the only one.
I must admit I am not exactly sure on the specifics of Monero.
From a cursory Google it looks like they claim to be different from regular crypto-currencies on these fronts:
- Stealth addresses for the recipient, so you can’t track who receives money
- Ring signatures, so you can’t easily figure out who signed a transaction
- Encrypted transactions, so people outside the ring cannot see the value being transferred.
That leaves me with a few questions.
Assuming that we can trust everyone in our “ring” ourselves, how does someone outside the ring verify that a person is good for the amount they are attempting to transfer? The reason why in regular crypto the sender, receiver and amount are public, is so that anyone can verify that noone is spending more than they have. That is necessary in lieu of a central authority verifying transactions.
I take it that as outsiders we just have to assume that the “ring” is credible, and has verified the transaction for us.
That leads me to my next question. How can we trust the ring? What is preventing a small group of people banding together and forming their own ring, approving each others fraudulent transactions? It seemingly lowers the bar for a 51% attack quite significantly.Any website I found also talks about stealth addresses for recipients, but how does the money then make it to the actual recipient? At some point the address of the actual recipient has to be made public in order for the funds to actually go where they are supposed to go.
And if there are only stealth addresses for recipients, does that mean there are no stealth addresses for senders? Can anyone still see if I’m making transactions, just not how much and to whom?
I’m currently at work, so admittedly I haven’t taken a particularly deep dive on the topic, but these are just some concerns that came to mind based on the information I found following a quick Google.
Look up techniques like cryptographic range proofs and Zero-knowledge proofs. It’s all doable without trust, assuming you believe the algorithms are secure
how did we go from cash […] to credit cards Consumerism convenience, that’s all.
If the vast majority of people saw value in cash (or privacy), there wouldn’t be as much adoption of cards (or the subject matter: phone payments)
Seems interesting! Does anyone have insight into how private this would be compared to Apple Pay?
