We desperately need proportional representation at the federal and provincial levels of government. What can we do to get it passed?
From what I understand, a coalition between the Liberals and the NDP (and more parties if the libs have that poor of a performance), where the Liberals aren’t really strong electorally speaking is probably how we would get PR federally (right?).
How do we do it provincially though? Ontario seems to be moving towards that direction, with opinion polls being in favor of PR, and the Liberals and the NDP being wiped out due to a lack of PR.
What about the other provinces? Eby’s being a little bitch in BC about this. Same goes with the Alberta NDP. There is no strong third party with enough leverage in either of these provinces to ram this demand through using a coalition. Not so familiar with the politics of other provinces and territories, so no idea what the status there looks like.
What do you think we should do instead? Fairvote’s “email a sternly worded letter to your MP/MLA” sounds woefully ineffective.
Parties deciding on and backing a specific model could help. Start getting a system, if even in name alone, into the minds of the people
Honestly, I think parties that support it need to accept that it’s not a top-of-mind issue for most voters, and focus their efforts on other priorities, while still keeping it in their platform.
No, it’s not top of mind, but it is a root of many of our ills. If how we solve problems is rooted in politics, and politics is rooted in our electoral system, then how we even move toward fixing our top-of-mind issues has to start with a system that produces the best possible outcome. The incentives of how our political system works are WHY there’s never any movement on our biggest challenges. This is not just rearranging deck chairs on the titanic. This is addressing the insanity of continuing to do the same thing over and over and expecting different results.
Now, there’s nothing that says we can’t treat the symptoms while we work to cure the disease, but we also need to make it clear to people, this is part of the underlying reason bad decisions made on bad incentives keep making their kitchen-table issues worse.
Eby’s being a little bitch in BC about this.
BC has rejected PR three times now, I’ve got zero reason to believe that the electorate would vote yes if they tried a 4th time. Why waste the money? Another province needs to be the guinea pig for this.
Unfortunately, the implementation of PR is full of misinformation, people not understanding why it is better, and pet desires rather than a desire to improve the status quo.
BC has rejected PR three times now
The first time, the majority voted FOR it. The BC Liberals however, set an arbitrary threshold of 60%. Also, in both of these cases STV was specified instead of the simpler and more representative MMPR. The second time, it was STV again. The third time, there wasn’t any specification from what I understand.
That being said, there is no moral obligation for PR to be passed through a referendum. PR empowers voters in ridings that sway heavily towards one side. Right now, these voters have absolutely no representation. This isn’t “representative” democracy.
If a government can form and make policies without majority support of the electorate, it can also pass electoral reform. Why do we need a referendum for it? Do we have referendums for all controversial policies?
“But a following government can easily roll back PR”.
Not really, no. Unless a really really massive wave comes in, PR almost always guarantees no single party majority. No small party would be stupid enough to accept the roll back of PR.
Unfortunately, the implementation of PR is full of misinformation, people not understanding why it is better, and pet desires rather than a desire to improve the status quo.
True. But my question is, do we truly need the people to “understand”? If we do, then we ought to have direct democratic practices for other important bills too (like budgets) like they do in Switzerland. Selective direct democracy for electoral reform, while abusing structural loopholes to pass bills without majority support is hypocritical, is it not. I’m directing this at the BC NDP btw, not you.
If you want electoral reform, one of the best things you can do is get involved. Join the federal and provincial parties you think you can make the most progress toward electoral reform by being a member. Push for ER at the meetings.
A nice side-effect of being involved in political parties is that in addition to getting to vote in the public elections, you also get to vote for your local candidate and the party leader.
Roll back Bill C21, you may gain a chunk of the 2.5 millions folks who legally own firearms and aren’t conservative.
We desperately need proportional representation at the federal and provincial levels of government. What can we do to get it passed?
What percentage of the population agrees with your premise? If most disagree, who’s wrong? You, or them? Start with this fundamental. Find the truth. Let strong evidence speak for itself.
What percentage of the population agrees with your premise?
I’d say most people are ambivalent to the whole discussion.
Hell, we have a hard time getting half the population to even get off their ass and cast a ballot at all.
The people who care about alternative voting systems really care, but that’s a small number of people. For everyone else it’s not something that crosses their minds, and when prompted, don’t have much of an opinion.
While I understand and even co-sign people’s instinct to cling to the status quo without exceptional evidence that a change will benefit us, I also recognize that reflex can be detrimental to our well-being if what we have truly makes us weaker, and a less free and just nation. The fact is there have been many examples of PR, some successful, others less so, and there are models that are clearly superior in making sure everyone’s perspective is heard and given fair consideration. Unfortunately that’s difficult to explain to people. Truthfully very few Canadians have a strong grasp of how our electoral systems work now, let alone the case for why it should be changed. You would not believe the number of misconceptions people have about the system we currently use and how often people confuse it for other systems they’ve heard about in other countries. I blame our media environment for that more than our education system, but that’s a tangent.
For this reason, it is necessary to continue to keep trying to explain, persuade, and re-engage people on this issue. The fact is people have not been making fully informed decisions, so trying again to explain it, and then asking them again is simply part of the process. Democracy only works when we’re all well informed. That’s why Plato hated democracy, because he considered the problem of getting everyone fully informed and on the same page too daunting in his opinion.
It’s our obligation as citizens to work together for a better nation. Some truths are found in the wisdom of the crowd, but many are objective, regardless of whether people believe in it. Many people hated the idea of public healthcare… until they experienced it, and changed their minds. Now you will pry it from our cold dead hands. Our implementation could definitely be better, but even deeply flawed it’s better than anything south of the border and the overwhelming majority will stand by that. Lived experience is a pretty good argument, no?
I completely agree that democracy only works when most people are well informed. That’s the crux of so many of our problems in society and politics. Perhaps the biggest weakness of democracy and one of societies most fundamental problems.
My personal preference is for proportional representation but it won’t overcome a misinformed public or pervasive corruption.
I agree that there is an objective truth to many matters, sometimes at odds with popular opinion, but even if proportional representation is truly and significantly superior to the status quo, if it is introduced against the opinion of the majority, is that democracy?
So, as you say, it is necessary to keep bringing it up. Keep explaining. There are some good examples from outside Canada. To get some local hands-on experience, it might be easier to start with more local government.
Democracy must be rooted in a well informed public, so every truly democratic political movement and change must begin there. It’s not easy and there are no shortcuts.
To get some local hands-on experience, it might be easier to start with more local government.
That’s not how government works in Canada. Provinces set the rules for the municipal level. Everything. Starts. With provinces.
Proportional representation is a bad idea, and in every case where it’s been examined on a provincial level when the voters take a long hard look they walk away from it
Would be better for sure to look at the reasons why you want it and then find other ways to achieve that which would be more acceptable to the public. If the public isn’t on board then you’re going to have a tough time making it happen and there’s been nothing to stop someone in the future from going back to first past the post
And you had a coalition between the liberals and NDP for 4 years, and that didn’t help.
You’re being disingenuous saying voters walk away every time. There are over half a dozen different ways of implementing PR. Show me an example for each type of PR where the voters walked away.
Also, out of the 74 democratic countries in the world, 2/3rds of them use some type of PR voting, so how about you show the reasons why these Canadian voters walked away from PR when 2/3rds of the world’s democracies have it and want it.
There’s nothing disingenuous about it, voters walked away from it every time. That’s entirely a fact and you can do your own research on the various models that were proposed, I’m not here to compile a book for you. It’s a matter of public record, these were voted on. We’ve seen mixed proportional proportional and a few others.
And every flavor that gets proposed gets shot down. British Columbia itself alone had three freaking referendums on it and launched a citizens committee to study it before one of them and it still got shot down
When people take a look at it they don’t like it. It’s a bad idea
And who cares how many other countries use pR? Israel’s one of them and they’ve been constantly criticized as having a horrible government. PR is a crappy system
But it’s an especially crappy system for a country as large and as diverse as ours is. The problems with PR are minimized when you have a smaller more homogeneous population. You have a population like ours it Magnifies all of the problems with PR 100 fold
As for the reasons why Canadians walked away from it it doesn’t really matter. The records are there and you can look it up if you want but the fact is they did walk away from it. Ontario, the Atlantic provinces, british Columbia, all toll groups that represent more than half of our population and they all shot it down some of them multiple times
You sold yourself on the idea that it’s good and you’re not looking at the problems that come along with it. But when people give it serious consideration they see those problems and they say no
The best you would ever sell in Canada is some form of limited proportional representation where the majority of the MPS are elected first pass the post but then a small number of seats are awarded to each party based on their percentage of vote to try and balance things a little bit and even that’s a bad idea. But it’s an idea that at least some people might accept. But it doesn’t actually address any of the issues people who support PR reportedly claim to care about
There are other ways to improve representation in our democracy that would be effective. PR is not one of them
Proportional representation is a bad idea, and in every case where it’s been examined on a provincial level when the voters take a long hard look they walk away from it
Won’t present the case for PR, as I don’t think I can make a better case than the ones already presented by other people. Don’t have the energy for it.
As for public support, 68% support it nationally according to an EKOS poll conducted in 2025.
I know this isn’t a provincial poll as you stated, but still. Also, if other important bills can pass without majority support of the electorate, why not PR? If we agree that the current FPTP system is fair, then why can’t reform passed through the same system be considered “fair”?
Would be better for sure to look at the reasons why you want it
- I don’t to be forced to vote strategically.
- I don’t want to be totally unrepresented in parliament and my LA.
- I don’t want a government that DOES NOT have majority support of the electorate passing laws as if it has majority support.
And you had a coalition between the liberals and NDP for 4 years, and that didn’t help.
True, sadly. It is also true that the NDP wasn’t that strong, and the Liberals weren’t that weak.
A precondition for this is a weak liberals, where an annoying snap election ends up drawing votes to the CPC or the NDP from the Liberals. If it’s the other way round, where NDP votes go to the libs, then electoral reform ain’t happening.
there’s been nothing to stop someone in the future from going back to first past the post
Not true. It is very very difficult for a single party to get a total majority in PR. No junior coalition partner would be stupid to roll back to FPTP.
Once PR happens, it would be very very difficult to get it rolled back.
PR is not a good method and as I’ve said every single time it gets a solid look by the people it gets turned down. What has it been, four or five referendums now? 6?
It’s not popular the moment people give it some real thought. And obviously the people of the provinces make up Canada. Even Ontario, our largest province, shot the idea down
As far as your reasoning goes as to why you want it I can understand that and I’m not saying it’s invalid. But there are other ways to achieve that and to be honest proportional representation will achieve the opposite in some of those cases Proportional representation means you have no local representative and you will be totally unrepresented in parliament directly. Furthermore the Idea of pR is to create fewer majorities. Which means that you never have a government that has majority support. It’s a coalition of people who don’t have majority support and didn’t run on a unified platform.
So by it’s very nature it doesn’t do what you want it to do. There are other ways to tackle some of those problems that would be better.
As to the liberals the liberals were plenty weak. The results are often however not what you thought they would be. Very often these coalitions become about personal power and achieve wealth for their members but don’t do much for Canada or the country they serve. Jack meet his pension and a bunch of business contacts, he will be very wealthy. Justin is making tens of millions of dollars with the connections he laid. Both left Canada in a mess. That is proportional representation and it’s core
And I hate to break it to you but it’s actually not that hard to get a majority under PR. It happens less frequently but it does happen and worse you’re thinking that only one party would want to go back to first pass the post. But chances are that’s not true. The liberals and conservatives could easily look at moving back to a first past the post if they don’t like sharing power with people like the NDP. Or did you forget about that?
Even the block might very well be happy to work with a minority government leader to bring back first past the post considering that proportional representation would probably hurt them the most
It would be very easy for it to be rolled back, so you’re not really changing anything
In short PR does not do what you want it to, and people realize that when they’re forced to take a long hard look at it and make a choice. Your concerns are valid but there are other ways to tackle them. PR has been proposed on a provincial level numerous numerous times and is always shot down. It will be wiser to look at reforms that make sense and can be sold to the public
