Unfortunately, sending weapons to a genocidal government is a non-partisan issue at the moment. A large majority of Democrats still support sending aid to Israel.
Change starts from the ground, not the top. As nice as it would be to get someone who supports all the rational causes we do into power, democracy means that we have to get the rest of the voters onboard first.
Yeah I get that. It’s just fundamentally shit and I’m not convinced it’s good tactics. The court will make a preliminary ruling (probably in favour of South Africa) in a few weeks or so. It will be on record that Biden has supported a genocide.
Has Trump started calling Biden “Genocide Joe” yet? How do you think that is going to go? The last election was scarily close. What if Trump does his usual “ramble with no apparent plan” thing and makes some anti-Israel statement because of the obvious reality that we and even he can see clearly? I guess what I’m saying is that it’s kind of leaving him an open goal. What’s the point, again?
Has Trump started calling Biden “Genocide Joe” yet? How do you think that is going to go?
Poorly. If there’s anything his base hates more than liberals, it’s brown people and Muslims. Not only that, but the Israeli lobby is extremely strong in US politics.
The last election was scarily close. What if Trump does his usual “ramble with no apparent plan” thing and makes some anti-Israel statement because of the obvious reality that we and even he can see clearly?
You’re kidding, right? He’ll brag about how he would have given Israel so much more support than ‘Sleepy Joe’ and that he’s Israel’s best friend, the best president for Israel ever. Not only that, but making an anti-Israel statement would lose Trump more votes than it gains him - anti-Israel positions simply are not popular in the electorate currently.
This is the same guy that recognized Jerusalem as Israel’s capital despite objections from both sides of the aisle. Trump loves the Israeli far-right too much to turn against them on humanitarian grounds.
I guess what I’m saying is that it’s kind of leaving him an open goal. What’s the point, again?
For me, the point is that Biden is the best we are realistically gonna get at this point in time. If we magicked up an anti-Israel candidate to take his place, that would still leave the issue of anti-Israel policies remaining deeply unpopular with the electorate, and that candidate, subsequently, losing short of some equally magicked-up gilded tongue. In light of that, treating this as an issue to vote against Biden for, or abstain, is nothing more than handing over the presidency to Trump for no other reason than that the vast majority of voters disagree with you and you’re upset about that (generic you, not specific you). It’s not ‘teaching’ a candidate or the party anything. It’s not contributing to a change in policy. It’s not even a meaningful objection to ongoing policy, since it’s an effective contribution to the candidate who is unambiguously worse on the subject of Israeli support.
Poorly. If there’s anything his base hates more than liberals, it’s brown people and Muslims.
Because the fascists just love jews? They hate both on racist grounds.
You’re kidding, right?
Obviously not. Needlessly impolite.
This is the same guy that recognized Jerusalem as Israel’s capital despite objections from both sides of the aisle. Trump loves the Israeli far-right too much to turn against them on humanitarian grounds.
Yeah fair point.
I’ll look up some statistics about voters’ views on this but I guess Lemmy gives me a bit of a warped view of people’s position on this. I did see one that backed up your point though yeah.
For me, the point is that Biden is the best we are realistically gonna get at this point in time.
I meant the point of Biden supporting Israel through this man made horror but yeah sure. You addressed that anyway.
It’s not ‘teaching’ a candidate or the party anything.
I agree there is no choice but to vote Biden anyway but this is only because they are not willing to learn and apparently have absolutely no principles they won’t sell down the river for some short term convenience. It is embarrassing for all concerned and frankly it disgusts me to my core.
Didn’t mean it impolitely, only as a challenge to the point.
I’ll look up some statistics about voters’ views on this but I guess Lemmy gives me a bit of a warped view of people’s position on this. I did see one that backed up your point though yeah.
Yeah, like, I would love if anti-Israel views were more common, but… fuck, the past 40 years or so of propaganda have done a number on popular views.
I agree there is no choice but to vote Biden anyway but this is only because they are not willing to learn and apparently have absolutely no principles they won’t sell down the river for some short term convenience. It is embarrassing for all concerned and frankly it disgusts me to my core.
Unfortunately, people with principles in politics are the exception rather than the rule.
Didn’t mean it impolitely, only as a challenge to the point.
No worries, it’s not like you bombed a hospital so I guess we can move past it, lol.
Unfortunately, people with principles in politics are the exception rather than the rule.
Unfortunate is right. Not much solace for the people with relatives in Gaza or a child trapped under the rubble that was once his home. Sorry for sending the bombs guys but politics is broken, we don’t have a viable alternative right now, try again in four years.
Im not sure but I think most folks views on israel is they want nothing to with it or really the region. The country was artifically created but its been around and if you want to say the country should just leave as they are not the original people, well as an american I can’t be that much of a hypocrite. Then you have the fact that nothing we have done in the region has ever resulted in good outcomes.
Man, I’m not one of those cretins who says “The Jews must be driven to the sea!” or any of that nonsense. I just think that Israel, as a functioning nation-state, needs to stop committing genocide, and I would really like if everyone here in the West was on the same page on that matter. I don’t think that’s a high bar to clear. Or at least, it shouldn’t be.
This kind of logic doesn’t work here on Lemmy. Say what you will about Reddit, but at least you could say reasonable shit like this and get a reasonable discussion out of it there.
Here, you just get a bunch of kids willing to sacrifice the democracy of their country over issues in a country they mostly know nothing about.
but that’s what the post is saying. Yes, we know Trump is a fucking maroon, but saying that to Trump voters doesn’t work.
The post is asking “Do you to tell them Trump sucks and they vote for Trump anyway, or do you want to lead with policy and potentially change their mind?”
Consider you’re using an app, which you like, and someone says “Oh that app sucks.” You’d think “ok guy!” But if someone said “oh if you like that app you should check out this one, it has twice the functions, and all these quality of life improvements, and it’s more secure and doesn’t have any ads” you’d think “my guy!”
Biden is a far better president and presidential candidate with progressive foreign and domestic policies that have tangibly and practically helped hundreds of millions of people.
So we already have that down.
Trump supporters and conservatives in general are clear that they don’t care about policy as much as they care about idolizing someone who hurts other people.
So I think it’s important that they know their candidate has been found liable for the extreme of hurting other people and actually committed rape.
If a conservative cares that much about hurting other people, it should be known widely and explicitly clear that they are supporting a rapist. That clashes more with their false, professed ideals than climate science they don’t believe in or sustainable resource management or a higher value currency.
Unless that person is voting for a rapist, say like trump.
Feel free to shame anyone voting for a rapist. People who vote for rapists should be ashamed of themselves.
Being a rapist is barely even in the top three awful things about Trump. That’s how bad he is.
Not sure sending weapons to a genocidal government is the best plan for keeping him out of the White House but hey what do I know
Unfortunately, sending weapons to a genocidal government is a non-partisan issue at the moment. A large majority of Democrats still support sending aid to Israel.
Change starts from the ground, not the top. As nice as it would be to get someone who supports all the rational causes we do into power, democracy means that we have to get the rest of the voters onboard first.
Yeah I get that. It’s just fundamentally shit and I’m not convinced it’s good tactics. The court will make a preliminary ruling (probably in favour of South Africa) in a few weeks or so. It will be on record that Biden has supported a genocide.
Has Trump started calling Biden “Genocide Joe” yet? How do you think that is going to go? The last election was scarily close. What if Trump does his usual “ramble with no apparent plan” thing and makes some anti-Israel statement because of the obvious reality that we and even he can see clearly? I guess what I’m saying is that it’s kind of leaving him an open goal. What’s the point, again?
Poorly. If there’s anything his base hates more than liberals, it’s brown people and Muslims. Not only that, but the Israeli lobby is extremely strong in US politics.
You’re kidding, right? He’ll brag about how he would have given Israel so much more support than ‘Sleepy Joe’ and that he’s Israel’s best friend, the best president for Israel ever. Not only that, but making an anti-Israel statement would lose Trump more votes than it gains him - anti-Israel positions simply are not popular in the electorate currently.
This is the same guy that recognized Jerusalem as Israel’s capital despite objections from both sides of the aisle. Trump loves the Israeli far-right too much to turn against them on humanitarian grounds.
For me, the point is that Biden is the best we are realistically gonna get at this point in time. If we magicked up an anti-Israel candidate to take his place, that would still leave the issue of anti-Israel policies remaining deeply unpopular with the electorate, and that candidate, subsequently, losing short of some equally magicked-up gilded tongue. In light of that, treating this as an issue to vote against Biden for, or abstain, is nothing more than handing over the presidency to Trump for no other reason than that the vast majority of voters disagree with you and you’re upset about that (generic you, not specific you). It’s not ‘teaching’ a candidate or the party anything. It’s not contributing to a change in policy. It’s not even a meaningful objection to ongoing policy, since it’s an effective contribution to the candidate who is unambiguously worse on the subject of Israeli support.
Because the fascists just love jews? They hate both on racist grounds.
Obviously not. Needlessly impolite.
Yeah fair point.
I’ll look up some statistics about voters’ views on this but I guess Lemmy gives me a bit of a warped view of people’s position on this. I did see one that backed up your point though yeah.
I meant the point of Biden supporting Israel through this man made horror but yeah sure. You addressed that anyway.
I agree there is no choice but to vote Biden anyway but this is only because they are not willing to learn and apparently have absolutely no principles they won’t sell down the river for some short term convenience. It is embarrassing for all concerned and frankly it disgusts me to my core.
Didn’t mean it impolitely, only as a challenge to the point.
Yeah, like, I would love if anti-Israel views were more common, but… fuck, the past 40 years or so of propaganda have done a number on popular views.
Unfortunately, people with principles in politics are the exception rather than the rule.
No worries, it’s not like you bombed a hospital so I guess we can move past it, lol.
Unfortunate is right. Not much solace for the people with relatives in Gaza or a child trapped under the rubble that was once his home. Sorry for sending the bombs guys but politics is broken, we don’t have a viable alternative right now, try again in four years.
Yeah. It’s fucked up.
Im not sure but I think most folks views on israel is they want nothing to with it or really the region. The country was artifically created but its been around and if you want to say the country should just leave as they are not the original people, well as an american I can’t be that much of a hypocrite. Then you have the fact that nothing we have done in the region has ever resulted in good outcomes.
Man, I’m not one of those cretins who says “The Jews must be driven to the sea!” or any of that nonsense. I just think that Israel, as a functioning nation-state, needs to stop committing genocide, and I would really like if everyone here in the West was on the same page on that matter. I don’t think that’s a high bar to clear. Or at least, it shouldn’t be.
Too bad that a bunch of fucking morons are going on a media rampage BomberBiden, and absolutely handing Trump the election.
They better shut the fuck up when he wins because of it with thier “boo hoo, Trump is neglecting the whole world, genocide genocide!”
Yeah… Well we had a choice between a genocide enabler or a gigantic piece of shit, dictator wannabe AND genocide enabler…
This kind of logic doesn’t work here on Lemmy. Say what you will about Reddit, but at least you could say reasonable shit like this and get a reasonable discussion out of it there.
Here, you just get a bunch of kids willing to sacrifice the democracy of their country over issues in a country they mostly know nothing about.
but that’s what the post is saying. Yes, we know Trump is a fucking maroon, but saying that to Trump voters doesn’t work.
The post is asking “Do you to tell them Trump sucks and they vote for Trump anyway, or do you want to lead with policy and potentially change their mind?”
Consider you’re using an app, which you like, and someone says “Oh that app sucks.” You’d think “ok guy!” But if someone said “oh if you like that app you should check out this one, it has twice the functions, and all these quality of life improvements, and it’s more secure and doesn’t have any ads” you’d think “my guy!”
just some food for thought.
I don’t think this meme is supposed to be about Trump voters.
Biden is a far better president and presidential candidate with progressive foreign and domestic policies that have tangibly and practically helped hundreds of millions of people.
So we already have that down.
Trump supporters and conservatives in general are clear that they don’t care about policy as much as they care about idolizing someone who hurts other people.
So I think it’s important that they know their candidate has been found liable for the extreme of hurting other people and actually committed rape.
If a conservative cares that much about hurting other people, it should be known widely and explicitly clear that they are supporting a rapist. That clashes more with their false, professed ideals than climate science they don’t believe in or sustainable resource management or a higher value currency.