I’m in a catch 22 situation. I want to go to a four year college, but I was previously placed in the remedial track and have a poor academic standing. If I go to a community college, I could improve my grades, but the material they cover is a replacement for high school classes and I’d be precluded from signing up for entry classes at the four year college. This seems like to would put me at a disadvantage when that finally happened and I would only be setting myself up for long term failure.
I’d consider CC if I could “transfer” in as a freshman to a four year, but the colleges I looked into all have rules against applying as a freshman if you have two years worth of credits. When I tried CC, the material was absolutely high school level just with smaller font in the textbooks.
Some state college programs are designed so that CC credits are counted the same in a state university. I even know some people who did that.
The trick isn’t to transfer into a four year college as a freshman, but as a junior.
Yep, that’s what I did. Went to community college and graduated with what they called a transfer degree. All the credits basically knocked out two years from a4 year college, but without having to pay as much.
Edit: after reading your post again, I get the feeling that my advice may not be relevant to you. My comment is specifically dealing with my experience as an American.
If I go to a community college, I could improve my grades, but the material they cover is a replacement for high school classes and I’d be precluded from signing up for entry classes at the four year college.
This system is pretty incongruous with my college experience. You may get more accurate help if you specify what area you’re from
Are you a current high-school student? I can only speak from my own experience about a decade ago but I’d recommend to take as many AP and dual-enrollment courses as you can. AP courses were weighted and boosted my GPA way up and dual-enrollment let me take college courses for free in my highschool. If your school offers either of these, take as many as you can. My local state university actually partnered with our community college so transferring was as smooth as could be. It might be worth actually chatting with both the community college you’re considering and your eventual four-year university’s admission offices and making sure that what you understand is right.
Don’t discount the benefits of Community College, either.
When I tried CC, the material was absolutely high school level just with smaller font in the textbooks.
This is absolutely the case with freshman courses at a university. Only difference is that you’re paying three times as much for tuition.
Are you a current high-school student?
Yes and No. I hold both a GED and Highschool Diploma for NJ. I’m also enrolled in the only online virtual high school that seems legit. What you’re really asking is, “am I a legal adult?” Yes, I am.
AP classes were never an option at my old high school. It was decided that I had a learning disability and was thrown in the remedial track. The remedial track is a blackhole. If you do well, it proves how much the program works and how well you fit in it. If you do poorly, it proves how much you need the “extra” help. Really, you just get anxiety from the bullies and the hopeless of your future prospects.
This is absolutely the case with freshman courses at a university.
One time, as an experiment, I took an online highschool biology class, Bio110 at the local CC, Great Courses: How Life Works, and MITx: Introduction to Biology. The online highschool was actually out pacing the CC classes. Great Courses was really good, but the MITx course actually felt like I was learning tools that I would be expected to use. I was doing pretty well with MITx until it got to protein folding and I didn’t have a study group to fall back on. The two breaking points for CC that time was coming into class early(it was a morning class) and hearing the teacher shit talk the class to a fellow teacher and being denied the experiment subject I wanted to run because they didn’t have the facilities to grow a biobutanol producing microbe when I was planning on doing it at home.
Only difference is that you’re paying three times as much for tuition.
And getting access to much better attitudes and facilities.
One time, as an experiment, I took an online highschool biology class, Bio110 at the local CC, Great Courses: How Life Works, and MITx: Introduction to Biology. The online highschool was actually out pacing the CC classes.
If you’re taking a 100 level class, you should not be surprised it is fairly entry level. That’s what 100 level classes are.
If you’re beyond this material, you can usually test out with CLEP testing. Get yourself into some 200 level classes which are beyond entry level. If you fail the CLEP testing for the 100 level classes, then you should be realistic and understand there is still some material you need from these even if you may know a lot of it already.
and hearing the teacher shit talk the class to a fellow teacher
When people talk about the benefits of college beyond the curriculum running into these type of situations are where real growth to a mature adult come from. You have no idea what the history is between those fellow teachers are. Its entirely possibly the shit talk was justified. Further, you shouldn’t really care. You’re there to get an education you need to learn teachers talking shit about each other is noise you need to ignore to accomplish your goal. Getting wrapped around the axel with that drama is a distraction to your goal. Recognizing these interpersonal situations and developing the skills to navigate them are key to mature adulthood.
and being denied the experiment subject I wanted to run because they didn’t have the facilities to grow a biobutanol producing microbe when I was planning on doing it at home.
You’re in an entry level 100 class. Its great that you have greater dreams of doing higher level work, but a 100 level class isn’t likely going to accommodate that. Many 100 level classes are to simply meet an educational requirement minimum providing and introduction to the subject matter. Expecting 300 or 400 level classwork and lab access isn’t realistic. If you want that, show you can do it. Pass the 100 level class and do the higher level class.
And getting access to much better attitudes and facilities.
I think you should probably be careful with these expectations. Especially as a freshman you likely won’t be getting the premium experience you may think your money deserves.
Entry level is entry level. If I hypothetically transferred from CC to MIT, I wouldn’t have access to MIT’s entry level class. There was far too much time being spent on cell structure.
Its entirely possibly the shit talk was justified.
To summarize what I overheard the teacher saying, she was complaining about how unintelligent the regular session students were compared to the summer session, while also commenting about how unengaged the summer students were. The reason was the summer students are home on vacation from better schools are are just filling out credits. This same teacher also recommended that we decided on experiments based on what would the the easiest and used her example of barn cat behavior that only required her to sit on her back porch watching cats. When she denied me cultivating biobutanol microbes, I gave up on actually learning anything and left the class. She wasn’t interested in teaching.
I think you should probably be careful with these expectations.
I’m already friends with and have professional relationships with university researchers. I know what to expect. Hell, previously, I only considered MIT type schools as places that actually do things. My “local” state university was mainly known for wasting money on their sports program, but now I realize that they actually do interesting and important things.
Entry level is entry level.
To an extent, but I’m not seeing that you’re gathering the distinction.
If I hypothetically transferred from CC to MIT, I wouldn’t have access to MIT’s entry level class. There was far too much time being spent on cell structure.
How about taking classes NOT in the field of study you want at MIT. Don’t take BIO courses, take something completely not applicable like business courses or humanities.
Its entirely possibly the shit talk was justified.To summarize what I overheard the teacher saying, she was complaining about how unintelligent the regular session students were compared to the summer session, while also commenting about how unengaged the summer students were. The reason was the summer students are home on vacation from better schools are are just filling out credits.
Right, that just sounds like noise to me. It sounds like you took offense, and instead of just ignoring the noise, you let it cloud your decisions on how to reach your goal. In life you’re going to run into all kinds of different people and (spoiler) everyone is flawed in some way. What you posted above could have been a perfectly fine person having a bad day. You going to have to learn to deal with all kinds of people going through life. You don’t get to pick and choose the quality of all the individuals you deal with. Further, I’ve worked with some absolutely toxic people that are brilliant in one specific area. I learned their specialty from them and compartmentalized my relationship with them so their toxicity didn’t really affect me much. This is part of being a mature adult.
This same teacher also recommended that we decided on experiments based on what would the the easiest and used her example of barn cat behavior that only required her to sit on her back porch watching cats. When she denied me cultivating biobutanol microbes, I gave up on actually learning anything and left the class. She wasn’t interested in teaching.
She might have been an adjunct professor overburdened with too much work and underpaid. Its hard to get excited in those situations. In your pure quest for your own personal self improvement, you might have closed off an avenue of learning because it didn’t meet your exact specifications. I’d caution against doing this too much.
I think you should probably be careful with these expectations.I’m already friends with and have professional relationships with university researchers. I know what to expect.
But you’re not one of their students. You’re not going to get the same level of access and attention when you’re one of 400 students in a giant lecture hall when the TA (grad student) is who you interact with 99% with during the 100 level classes. The Uni researcher is in the lab or with their 300 or 400 level students doing research not teaching freshman classes.
Hell, previously, I only considered MIT type schools as places that actually do things. My “local” state university was mainly known for wasting money on their sports program, but now I realize that they actually do interesting and important things.
Right out of high school and beginning college we believe we have the world figured out and we have the answers for everything. Black and White. Unambiguous. Hubris is the best friend of young adults in these situations. I don’t exclude myself from this. I did the same thing. I’m seeing many of those ideas in your posts too. I’m not going to try to talk you out of it. Most people I know only learned by going through it themselves and that’s okay. Your 20s are for having fun, making mistakes, and learning how to adult.
I wish you the best of luck!
Edit: after reading your post again, I get the feeling that my advice may not be relevant to you. My comment is specifically dealing with my experience as an American.
I’m not OP, but I’m confused by this edit. Are you seeing that OP is indicating they aren’t an American/in the American academic system? I’m not seeing that anywhere. I agree with what you said and even see pathways OP can take, but if they aren’t in the American academic system, then my advice wouldn’t be helpful either.
I’m not the person you replied to, but I’ve never heard of CC as covering exclusively HS content. I’d guess that’s where the confusion is coming from?
I think you’ve given me the missing piece of info. OP is still in High School.
This statement suggested to me OP had already graduated High School but graduated with lower scores:
“When I tried CC…”
The CC classes aren’t called HS material, but the biology class I tried absolutely overlapped with the high school material. I could have probably dropped out as a high school freshman, got a GED and started with CC from there. I probably would have been able to negotiate with transferring as a freshman if my CC years were before I was an adult.
This isn’t any less true of a “real” college’s Bio 101. They don’t know what you actually covered (or retained) from HS, so intro classes almost always cover the same material for part of the class. That is in no way unique to (or weird of) Community Colleges.
I’m just not familiar with any system where community college courses can boost a highschool GPA. I may just be misunderstanding the post though
I don’t think they’re still in HS, but are between HS and college and hasn’t been able to get accepted to a traditional college. The CC is a stepping stone
I could be wrong, of course, but that’s how I read it 🤷♂️
Well, there’s two ways forward, one is that you bite the bullet and get your AA which almost always transfers as most of the first 2 years and you’ll be on to most of your degree course work.
Or, you apply directly college again and you write tour essays on how you’ve grown as a person. The second one will require some time between being suspended and applying again so I don’t know if its an option and that usually requires you have something to show for your about face, I.e. you’ve worked your way up in some kind ofcareerr for a few years. So that can be a real trick.
They aren’t concerned with if you’ll be learning anything while you raise your grades, they are concerned if you are going to put in the effort and stick with it so they don’t take an opportunity from someone that actually wants to put in the work.
It’s kinda BS, but also, its adult consequences in an adult world. At the end of the day, you made decisions that make colleges think you need to do some highschool work again so, you’re going to have to deal with the consequences, and that includes doing redundant work, both in cc and then to fill in the gaps once you transfer.
I wouldn’t have a problem with convincing colleges I’ve competent. I’m friends with plenty of college facility and get asked to be an “Industry Expert” for high school judging events they run. It’s my academic ability I don’t trust. I can self teach if I have a project to do, but I can’t self teach if I don’t know about the concepts. One time I tried CC for their geometry classes, they said I tested out and refused. Currently, I’m struggling with an online high school’s geometry class and would really benefit from having a classroom and schedule. Wish some of the online high schools adopted the “virtual classroom” model that all the public schools tried during covid.
FWIW my biggest (late 1990s) college regret is that I didn’t do community college for 2 years then transfer to university. The university I wanted to go to allowed for direct credit transfer (from the nearest CC) after 2 years and one of my friends/roommates took advantage of it. He lived in an apartment with us university students and didn’t really miss anything other than 2 years of student loans.
But what was your goal?
I’m not sure I understand the question.
My friend who did 2 years of community college before transferring to univerity went on to become a veterinarian.
My goal is to maximize my time in a research college and do good there. Starting as a freshman means two more years of networking and access to the school’s facilities. What happens after is irrelevant. I already have a career.
My only question was about college preparation that doesn’t involve cc credits. Not life advice.
I know lots of folks that have gone to college on the “5 year plan”. Does the school you’re going to kick you out if you haven’t obtained all the Bachelors degree credits in 4 years or less?
I don’t know. Is there a way to reset my academic record if things go wrong? I got locked into a piss poor high school record(this post was about circumventing that) because of an over ambition child study team and a helicopter parent. If I get into financial trouble, I can declare bankruptcy, but I can’t redo high school or college? The colleges I looked at all say if I don’t declare all previous education, it would be considered fraud and I would get expelled. I can’t try community college for real because there’s no going back if it’s not good enough.
Hell, I didn’t even fulfill the basic requirements dictated by the state for a high school diploma, but the state board of ed didn’t feel like receding my diploma. If not for that, I would have been able to go to a charter school.
I don’t do well in traditional semester college cuz adhd.
So, never went to college. Started in fast food, last job was 75k/ year tech job.
I took a lot of short term accredited programs. ROP certifications. LearnIT. Studied on my own to test MVP certifications for excel, PowerPoint, word. You can study on your own to take A+ certification exam. I took community college non credit classes about various applied arts.
So, I’d show up at job interviews with no traditional college degree, but a ton of certifications, short term classes, etc. They were fascinated by my diverse tech skills, it showed I had ambition. So I got a lot of jobs easily this way.
Also, try being a career temp for a while. If you prove you’ll show up for the gigs professionally, they’ll send you to more assignments . I did this for a decade, got phenomenal skillset, different industries , lot of diverse experience.
I have a job. That’s not what the post is about.
I don’t understand much here.
You’re struggling in self taught high school geometry, but tested out at CC.
You took HS, CC, and online intro to biology classes all at the same time.
The CC wouldn’t let you run experiments due to lack of facilities.
You are used as an expert judge in competitions in your (unknown) field.
You want to maximize time in a college or university research lab.
I’ll say this, you most likely won’t be in a lab much as an undergraduate, so don’t worry about transferring as a freshman. Why not ask all the friends and acquaintances in the research labs for advice and help? If that’s where you’d like to end up?
Also, if you can already enroll in the college, then they, and no one, cares about your academic past- especially high school…
You’re struggling in self taught high school geometry, but tested out at CC.
You took HS, CC, and online intro to biology classes all at the same time.
These didn’t happen at the same time.
The CC wouldn’t let you run experiments due to lack of facilities.
This college bragged about their shiny new science building, but they cheaped out in every way. The rooms were even too small, so people were having their backs touch if they sat opposite each out at adjacent tables. Hillbillies make moonshine in the woods, but they couldn’t grow a little biobutanol?
It’s the attitude “don’t try anything hard, you might fail” that was pressured on me all though compulsory education that I hate. There are high schools with better labs and more expectations for their students than that community college. I know, the judging competitions are state wide science fairs. And I’m not giving my field of expertise because I’m not doxxing myself.
I’ll say this, you most likely won’t be in a lab much as an undergraduate
That’s literally what UROP is. Many colleges have it. You just have to ask.
You might check with the college to see if it’s possible to test (or re-test) out of remedial courses. If the answer is yes, buckle down with old textbooks, the local library, YouTube, free online courses, local tutors and whatever else you need.
The one caveat here is if you’re taking more math courses later, you really need to get these basics down, because the later courses will build off of this content. So don’t just “study for the test” and then forget it, try to really understand what you’re doing and why.
A couple comments, from personal experience: first off, there are different ways to teach math. I’ve had teachers who explained something so beautifully and clearly that, if I happened to forget a formula, I could remember the explanation and recreate the formula. And I’ve had teachers that were teaching me stuff I already knew cold, who had me so confused on the stuff I definitely already knew, that I had to switch sections before they hit stuff I didn’t know. Do you might need to look at a different book or course or something, if it doesn’t make sense to you.
Second, when they assign a handful of problems out of the back of the chapter, don’t do just those problems. Do every single exercise in the back of the chapter, and check yourself when you complete each one. If it’s the wrong answer, do it again. If it’s still the wrong answer, keep going until you get the right answer, but pay attention to what you’re doing: you have some basic misunderstanding of what you’re supposed to be doing, and you want to identify and correct that misunderstanding so it doesn’t screw you over later. Math builds on math; if your foundation is shaky, you’re going to collapse when you get to the upper levels.
