(I posted this on lemmygrad but I want to get some discussion from here too.)

I’ve been meaning to ask about some stuff regarding parenti that I see come up on different places.

One of them being about parenti’s book blackshirts and reds. So I’ve run into specific people who have claimed and bought up that parenti is lying about : how social democrats in germany gave fascists a path and its actually fault of soviets.

To paraphrase them

Soviets gave kpd direction to be hostile and also it wasn’t just “socdems will ally with nazis”. It was cause soviets gave advice to be hostile to the spd.

To boil it down, they say that parenti is wrong about rise of fascism and he whitewashed soviet mistakes.

The other thing that’s bought up is the bombing of germany and american industrial ties. I see it brought up that parenti is just lying about bombing in cologne of ford factory. And its actually all lies and say the charlie higham “trading with the enemy” reference is bullshit. They go on to say that american industrialist involvement with german industry is not that deep. And that parenti (and other communists) lie about this to make a grand narrative of american involvement. They bring up nazi economy book by tooze and this site as a debunking lies material.

Now my post isn’t so much about parenti, I wanna broadly discuss about the whole notion that soviets or german communists were the reason nazis came to power and that socdems were really not at fault.

And also to discuss that american industrialists involved with germany is some bullshit conspiracy. Which it isn’t, given the lengths across the board they spread collaborating after and before the war. I’ve been reading a lot of stuff on dulles, hw, and nazis spread across into different places for american interests. So I don’t think american involvement is some fake conspiracy.

What are your thoughts? (Sorry if this post is too long)

  • Red_sun_in_the_sky@lemmy.mlOPEnglish
    3·
    6 months ago

    As far as specifics go, I guess they just think parenti is a bad historian distorting for a narrative. Specifically that they think his references are bad and he just says things to push agenda. They keep saying something like spectre of war by haslam is better book on the rise fascism. And that parenti wants to blame spd even though its all kpd and soviets fault according to them.

    They just think parenti is awful and that he is a very bad historian. Also that blackshirts and reds is a poorly written book.

    They kinda have 2 criticisms yeah. They just think books by haslam or kershaw or suny are the only ones that are serious and good. And parenti is just a bad historian according their 2 criticisms.

    I don’t know if they want to draw parallels to current atmosphere. They are type who say bolsheviks never really cared for a real revolution they just wanted authoritarianism.

    • TreadOnMe [none/use name]@hexbear.netEnglish
      3·
      6 months ago

      This is a person who will never lead anything or have to make compromises because of the pressures of wartime. To say the Bolsheviks were never interested in ‘real revolution’ despite overthrowing one of the largest empires in the world and disintegrating it’s imperial ambitions, and integrating the Soviet worker council structure into their government organization when they didn’t actually have to (see the rise of the Russian federation), is pushing more of an agenda than Parenti ever does.

      • Red_sun_in_the_sky@lemmy.mlOPEnglish
        1·
        6 months ago

        They said if they are interested in real revolution then they would have listened to the workers rather than gunning them in kronstadt. Yeah they do push agenda.

        • TreadOnMe [none/use name]@hexbear.netEnglish
          2·
          6 months ago

          Honestly, ignore my last comment. It has little to do with the topic at hand, which was the complicity of the spd in aiding the rise of fascism, which it absolutely was. This person you’re talking to is going down rabbit holes, to tug at meaningless strings. The kpd were not the soviets so kronstadt is meaningless here.

          • Red_sun_in_the_sky@lemmy.mlOPEnglish
            3·
            6 months ago

            No its fine. I bought it up to point out how they draw historic parallels. I’m not talking to them right now. I know of this person through like a message group. That person is a self proclaimed history understander and claims to debunk all the bad history communists propagate. These talking points are old shit I noted down from like 2 years ago to look up later and never got around to it. I saw bunch of stuff popping about parenti recently, so I posted this.