• KillingTimeItself@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        28 days ago

        we still dont know fuck shit about nordstream, it’s theorized that it was ukraine, but we don’t exactly have super solid evidence of this. it could’ve been russia, but let’s be real. It probably wasn’t. It could’ve been china, but i doubt that they cared. Could’ve been the US, i sincerely doubt this. Could’ve been one of the european nations, or maybe just a rich billionaire or some shit, who knows.

        What we do know, is that the attack was for all four of the pipelines, and one of them failed to properly destroy the pipeline, so presumably there is some amount of forensic evidence there. And it seems like nobody really wants to talk about it for fears of starting ww3

        • Fidel_Cashflow@lemmy.ml
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          28 days ago

          I have no doubt that the US was behind the destruction of Nord Stream 2, Biden said as much in 2022 in the lead up to the war

          https://youtu.be/OS4O8rGRLf8?si=rP-MMg4bbvFpnqe9

          During a joint press conference with German Chancellor Olaf Scholz, President Biden is asked about the Nord Stream 2 pipeline.

          “If Russia invades, that means tanks or troops crossing the border of Ukraine again, then there will no longer be a Nord Stream 2. We will bring an end to it.”

          when asked how, the president says, “I promise you, we will be able to do that.”

          • Aux@lemmy.world
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            28 days ago

            It proves nothing. Nord Stream was closed down by Russia before the attack.

          • KillingTimeItself@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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            28 days ago

            i mean this isn’t proof. This is pretty typical for legislative speak.

            Also there are literally people speaking german in this video.

  • lugal@lemmy.world
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    28 days ago

    They call it “war”. Some German journalists call it “militarily operation”

  • TrueStoryBob@lemmy.world
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    28 days ago

    It infuriates me how the narrative goes like this: Hamas (or any Palestinian group with even an ounce of power) is comprised of conscious actors who have agency and can/must be held accountable. Meanwhile, Israel is just this nebulous force of nature that happens and thus cannot be held accountable for it’s actions (like a hurricane or earthquake).

  • Aux@lemmy.world
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    28 days ago

    Hamas terrorists were hiding inside the pipes. Like they do every Friday.

  • KillingTimeItself@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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    28 days ago

    im no forensic analyst but i’d probably venture to say that it would have been some number of the explosive munitions that ended up in the ordeal.

    • zbyte64@awful.systems
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      28 days ago

      And in Hamas’s language they call rocket launch sites Alderaan. Google “The destruction of Alderaan” to learn more.

  • Lynthe@sh.itjust.works
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    28 days ago

    I’ll remember this argument next time you/others talk about how Gaza is cut off from global markets by Israel

    • Keeponstalin@lemmy.world
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      28 days ago

      Because it’s been a deliberate tactic of De-development

      The blockade and Israel’s repeated military offensives have had a heavy toll on Gaza’s essential infrastructure and further debilitated its health system and economy, leaving the area in a state of perpetual humanitarian crisis. Indeed, Israel’s collective punishment of Gaza’s civilian population, the majority of whom are children, has created conditions inimical to human life due to shortages of housing, potable water and electricity, and lack of access to essential medicines and medical care, food, educational equipment and building materials.

      Other reports about how Israel is an Apartheid State: Human Rights Watch Report, B’TSelem Report with quick Explainer

      The Israeli imposed closure on Gaza began in 1991, temporarily, becoming permanent in 1993. The barrier began around Gaza around 1972. After the ‘disengagement’ in 2007, this turned into a full blockade; where Israel has had control over the airspace, borders, and sea. Under the guise of ‘dual-use’ Israel has restricted food, allocating a minimum supply leading to over half of Gaza being food insecure; construction materials, medical supplies, and other basic necessities have also been restricted.

      Gaza Policy Forum summary: Experts agree that Israel’s dual-use policy causes acute distress

      Through 1993 Israel imposed a one-way system of tariffs and duties on the importation of goods through its borders; leaving Israel for Gaza, however, no tariffs or other regulations applied. Thus, for Israeli exports to Gaza, the Strip was treated as part of Israel; but for Gazan exports to Israel, the Strip was treated as a foreign entity subject to various “non-tariff barriers.” This placed Israel at a distinct advantage for trading and limited Gaza’s access to Israeli and foreign markets. Gazans had no recourse against such policies, being totally unable to protect themselves with tariffs or exchange rate controls. Thus, they had to pay more for highly protected Israeli products than they would if they had some control over their own economy. Such policies deprived the occupied territories of significant customs revenue, estimated at $118-$176 million in 1986. (Arguably, the economic terms of the Gaza—Jericho Agreement modify the situation only slightly.)

      • page 240

      In a report released in May 2015, the World Bank revealed that as a result of Israel’s blockade and OPE, Gaza’s manufacturing sector shrank by as much as 60 percent over eight years while real per capita income is 31 percent lower than it was 20 years ago. The report also stated that the blockade alone is responsible for a 50 percent decrease in Gaza’s GDP since 2007. Furthermore, OPE (com- bined with the tunnel closure) exacerbated an already grave situation by reducing Gaza’s economy by an additional $460 million.

      • Page 402

      The Gaza Strip: The Political Economy of De-Development - Third Edition by Sara M. Roy

  • Fizz@lemmy.nz
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    28 days ago

    Destroyed by both sides in a war cause by a Palestinian government that has majority support. Palestinians should be rising up against their government for starting a war they were not prepared for.

    • Olgratin_Magmatoe@lemmy.world
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      27 days ago

      Or maybe, almost a century of colonization on Israel’s part has left Palestinians with no choice but to defend themselves violently. Don’t want terrorists? Maybe don’t bomb civilians and civilian infrastructure. Because every bomb you drop on a residential building is going to end up creating more terrorists than you kill.

      • Fizz@lemmy.nz
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        27 days ago

        Since you say they had no choice but to defend themselves violently pre October 7 then Isreal loses nothing by destroying gaza because they were already radicalized and already had a justification for war. So Isreal should take the opportunity oct7 provided to destroy all their military capabilities.

        Palestinians have to realize that their situation isn’t getting better when they “violently defend themselves” the only way to improve their situation is through diplomacy amwhich requires making concessions to reach a deal.

        • Olgratin_Magmatoe@lemmy.world
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          27 days ago

          then Isreal loses nothing by destroying gaza

          So we’re just going full mask off genocide? Get a grip.

          Palestinians have to realize that their situation isn’t getting better

          If you had any understanding of history, you’d know that has always been the case no matter what. Every decade, they’ve faced massacres, destruction of their homes, and ethnic cleansing.

          It has always been the case that their situation isn’t getting better, it has always been getting worse. Israel going full genocidal mode after October 7th was inevitable. At least now the world is paying closer attention and pressuring Israel and public officials to shut it down.

          the only way to improve their situation is through diplomacy amwhich requires making concessions to reach a deal.

          Not possible when Israel has a policy of “we will kill you, or take your home, we will accept nothing else”.

          Clearly you haven’t been paying attention, because for he last several months Israel has constantly reiterated that regardless of what deals are made, the only condition for ending their attacks is the end of Hamas. But conveniently everybody who dies gets called Hamas. According to Israel, basically no civilians have been killed.

          You can’t negotiate with genocidal maniacs. There is no middle ground when one side wants genocide, and the other just wants to live.

          • Fizz@lemmy.nz
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            26 days ago

            From isreals point of view they are fighting a “just war” (oxymoron yes I know) and are free to complete their war aims of destroying hamas. The rest of the world isn’t standing in the way of Isreal so they aren’t forced to give up much more than some PR.

            If you knew anything about history you would know why the Palestinian situation continues getting worse and why they are constantly in wars. It’s definitely as much Palestinians blocking peace as Isreal.

            Every single time a ceaswfire deal gets close hamas changes the deal at the last minute to something they know is unreasonable thereby taking negotiations back to step 1. If Palestinians wanted peace they would target hamas and not Isreal. They aren’t going to defeat Isreal. The only thing standing In the way of a ceasefire is the gazan “government” and the Palestinian support for them. So we can rephrase that as the only thing in the way of peace is the Palestinians living in Gaza.

            If a ceasefire deal isn’t reached it won’t be Isrealis dying it won’t be Isreal losing land. The only people getting hurt are the Palestinians. I guess the Palestinians know thay they can just wait for the fighting to end and the rest of the world will come rebuild their cities and give them food, water and when have recovered they can go right back to attacking Isreal.

  • SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca
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    28 days ago

    As we all know Hamas unchecked friendly fire when they started the server, so nothing in Gaza was damaged by Hamas. So when they engage in a firefight with the IDF, their bullets and rockets have no affect on the property or the people in the area.

    • Dud@lemmy.world
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      28 days ago

      Speaking of rockets, could you kindly climb into one and go back to where you came from?

      • Mirshe@lemmy.world
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        28 days ago

        Even when those aid vehicles are clearly marked and identify themselves as aid vehicles after they’re opened fire upon.

        • KillingTimeItself@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          27 days ago

          and they almost certainly know exactly where they are, because there is no way these orgs are just, walking into warzones without informing both parties about where they’re going and when.