God damn, people. Didn’t masked ICE agents snatch the New York City Comptroller and the migrant who had showed up for a hearing from the center of a heavily policed immigration court? Did anyone on the NYPD try and stop them?
You can see a local police officer in the fucking headline image. He’s holding back the press and letting masked ICE agents do as thou wilt. If the local PD won’t stick their necks out for a municipal senior official, what are the odds they’re going to do it for you?
This, after a sitting US Senator was arrested during a press conference? Who are you fooling?
Still recommending it because if the pigs show up and kill the pigs everyone wins.
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Normally I’m not the guy to say it, but if you don’t own a gun, you may want to change that.
…if you live in the US. If you live elsewhere, please don’t own a gun. We really don’t want to get that snowball rolling.
Good luck with that argument.
How does this post even make sense in this community? literally written in the sidebar:
The police problem is that police are policed by the police. Cops are accountable only to other cops, which is no accountability at all.
This is a SLIGHTLY different case than what the sidebar mentions.
Yes, asking asking the police to investigate themselves is a non-starter.
This post is advocating turning the state/local police against ICE, a federal agency.
I agree, it’s unlikely to make a difference. But if you call 9-1-1 and report “Masked men in an unmarked car just kidnapped someone”, it’s way different from asking internal affairs to investigate another cop.
This post is advocating turning the state/local police against ICE, a federal agency.
More than 600 local police agencies are partnering with ICE: See if yours is one of them
So, just generating reports?
Establishing a paper trail for subsequent investigations, yes.
investigations
By whom?
The point is calling their bluff
When an employee is investigated by hr that’s the company investigating itself and people get fired that way.
Dial 911 first, and say there’s a masked person with a gun. No need to qualify that shit.
My thoughts exactly. You think gestapo is gonna wait patiently while you call 911?
If you don’t, you’re dead or at least on the ground before you finish that first question.
You don’t have to talk to a masked gunman or engage with them in any way to call 911.
If you see masked people with guns, call 911. If they’re authorized to be there, there’s no harm in calling it in.
I think we’re all agreeing. My comment might have been ambiguous.
If one of the possible answers to your question is “yes, I am indeed armed, and committing a felony by impersonating a law enforcement officer”, you should reconsider your most recent life choices. In particular, asking them that question.
Observe from a safe distance, and call 911. What on earth do you hope to gain by going up to them for a chat?
excuuuuuuuse me. Are you actually taking people hostages? Or is this some kind of publicity stunt? Hellooo?! Are you really shooting at me? That’s just, like, so rude.
so rude
Well, it is.
I assumed this is what you might consider once confronted not like put “ICE confrontation time” on your calendar
These sort of tactics might work if you’re with a large group in a public space, if you’re one person then it might not be the best idea. Honestly a lot of this stuff is highly context dependent.
One would assume you are not alone when you do this. Confrontation in public is not just important but demonstrably working. We have seen plenty of communities scare off ICE.
You are far more likely to be dealing with ICE than someone impersonating them. Acting like you’re the next potential target for a political assassin is a bit weird.
Always be safe, always be careful, but the fact is if you’re out at a protest or live in a community with a substantial immigrant population, you are likely to encounter ICE/the police.
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This is not the place for internet slap fighting. Both of you go to your rooms.
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This is not the place for internet slap fighting. Both of you go to your rooms.
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What did the ants do to you two? Stop flipping my ants.
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You ever notice how they stand with their hands covering their badges and name plates?
If they don’t adjust the things attached to their vests to hang over their identifying patches and badges. I have seen a bunch where they just have something that hangs over them.
domestic terrorism
It would be incredible if we could get through a lawsuit to news stations anytime they make bad assumptions in articles. They continually write “Federal agents detained …” when they should be writing “A team of unidentified individuals in masks and armor detained …”
Just as they are always meant to write “The suspect” not “The criminal”. Nothing must be assumed in reporting (exceptions allowed if they’ve contacted ICE headquarters and received a confirmation of them)
The media is the 4th branch, they won’t report on these things until they have to. And even then, they’ll find a way to delegitimize.
Just as they are always meant to write “The suspect” not “The criminal”.
For now, anyway. Due process and the presumption of innocence are still holding up, but the fascists are working hard on that one.
Due process and the presumption of innocence are still holding up
What? No friend, that’s a very privileged viewpoint that doesn’t hold true for many people and never has.
Like they,are going to give you the time to do this shit.
If you think a masked unidentified person will answer your question……
If you think a masked unidentified person will answer your question……
More like from a legal standpoint, you’d have a leg to stand on, you might also spook a fake agent enough to move on to a more willing target.
Assuming they’re real agents, I think the real issue is the cop’s response:
- They likely would not show up in a timely fashion
- They likely would not show up at all
- If they did show up in a timely fashion, the odds that they would side with you are slim
I’ve been wondering how does stand your ground work with a force of people not identifiable with guns. There is no way to know if someone is an ICE agent or an impersonator. It doesn’t help the police literally just feel for one themselves with the recent murder.
Its quite simple
you = 2 if color == "white" else 0 masked_gunman = 100 if job == "cop" else 1 if you > masked_gunman : print("The justice system works!") else: print("Life without parole")So you’re saying if 51 white people shoot 1 cop each the justice system will work?
you = 2 if color == “white” else 0 masked_gunman = 100 if job == “cop” else 1
if you > masked_gunman : print(“The justice system works!”) else: print(“Life without parole”)
This is a top tier reply.
They are cowards and likely not actual police.
If a person impersonating a cop spouted out some random digits when I asked for their badge and serial number, I doubt I would be able to tell the difference.
Exactly. I had some undercover (or plain clothes I guess?) cops show up at my workplace looking for one of my guys. I asked to see their badge and they showed me a badge but honestly, that’s only gonna stop someone who didn’t plan far enough ahead. The badge could have been from the dollar store and I would have a hard time refuting…
That’s what the call is for- you ask the local office if they can confirm that that officer is actually on patrol, exists, etc. Idk how that would work for ICE though; I don’t think you can just call up the federal ICE headquarters.
That’s not what the post says. It says call 911 if they refuse. It gives no guidance on what to do if they respond.
The current state of things is that they cover their faces and refuse to give any ID. Even fake ID.
I think if you followed the post suggestion and the result was that ICE would give fake names and fake badge-numbers, that would actually be positive because “agents lie about their identity” is something new and interesting. Then the strategy will need to change, but in the mean time it was useful.
At least with 911 on the phone you can ask to be connected somewhere who can verify
Bruh… It’s like 630 in the morning where I’m at. Take your non constructive bullshit somewhere else.
You were responding to someone by basically telling them the post addresses what they’re saying, but it doesn’t cover the scenario they’re talking about. If anything it’s very constructive because it’s pointing out a very obvious flaw with the post with specific instructions on how to make it better (by including what you said, so I don’t know why you’re so grumpy with me).
This always makes me think, if you resist an “ice agent” because they have not identified themselves, your not liable right? Like if you go infront of a court wouldn’t you have a good case to say, “they didn’t identify themselves, I thought I might be assaulted or kidnapped by someone”
Except you won’t go to a court. You’ll go to a camp.
Herein lies the problem.
There is no due process.
There is no law except what they choose to enforce.
You will not see a judge.
You will never be convicted by a jury of your peers.
You will just die, or be sent off to a place where you will likely wish that you were dead.
This is not law enforcement. This is not legal. They will not follow their own laws, why would you? If they come for you, fight like your life depends on it, because it probably does.
Your first mistake was assuming you would be allowed to see a court.
There is a reason why they suspend due process.
You are being kidnapped.
Utterly delusional to think any of that would work. At every step you would just get your face beaten in. When the cops come they too will just beat your face in.
Thinking you can castle doctrine a squad of ICE agents is equally delusional. You could probably take a couple out but you’d still die in the end and be risking the lives of anyone that lives with you.
The only solution is well known and already in practice in places like LA: have an active community response force that will show up and intimidate and harass the ICE agents. All of the previous delusions assume you, alone, can stop an ICE with just your privledge.
It happened at one of the protests. Someone asked one of the officers for their badge number and got their head battered.
If you can’t stop them, taking as many out with you as you can is not the worst option.
Folks also need to be tearing down the local deathcamps, and rescuing the people still alive in them.
No badges, no uniforms, driving unmarked cars and wearing masks? I think any person could successfully argue in court that they thought they were being kidnapped by criminals.
You’re still thinking as if due process and legality matters
You never get to court, that’s the point the previous comment is making.
As an individual trying to stand up to them you’re somewhere between being either completely ineffectual or making the situation worse. Having the law on your side doesn’t matter because it’s impossible for you to summon the enforcement of it fast enough to help you, assuming they even would.
A local community response that will mobilize and appear in your neighborhood in seconds is basically the only way to respond quickly with enough force for them to care about.
Yes, but I have a justifiable defense.
If I’m at risk of being thrown in a hole and forgotten about, I see that as my life is at risk. I will demand them to identify and if they don’t, that’s where the 2A comes in. At that point I’m literally fighting for my life however you look at it.
The people in LA Matt have been tracking and following the ice vehicles to some extent. We need that everywhere.
If ICE is coming for you, then you’re not seeing court. If you’re some interfering bystander then maybe you will. But then you’re plan to lie to the judge and say you didn’t know? The judge will see through you’re bullshit immediately.
Like that could only work if you actually were ignorant and even then you’d have a long up hill legal battle to establish the precedent that its sometimes OK to shoot law enforcement. IANAL but I think thats a liberty the state has never been conceded.
If you live in a society where masked gunmen, who are answerable to NO ONE can black-bag and kidnap you off the street, then it’s time for folks to have an honest talk with themselves about what kind of society they really live in.
then it’s time for folks to have an honest talk with themselves about what kind of society they really live in
The greatest! Amerikkkan society! The one they voted for!
You’re probably right, but you’d have to make it to court. Not everyone does…
court
:(
There were posters stapled to phone polls in my area with what to do when ice is around. Demand id, demand a warrent etc etc.
The next day there were news stories of ice not even caring about any of that.
They do not care about the law. Lock your door and hide. If you’re a neighbor tell them no one’s home. That’s about as much as you can do as an individual.
Tbh this is my plan if I see them, but starting with the calling 911 about the masked gunmen abducting my neighbor.
You know the cops watch the news too and will immediately guess what your up to. At best this is just trolling the cops. At worst you’re calling back for ICE.
show up and intimidate and harass
Well, show up and exercise first amendment rights certainly!
Second*
possible alternative would be to slash their car’s tires. don’t let them “get away” with this.
Sometimes you resist even if you know you will lose. At least it spends their time and exposes them to lawsuits.
If you want to be as annoying as possible out of spite or martyrdom I can respect that. But that’s what it’d be.
yes, I know that anyone doing anything but whatever nonsense they’re told is a dissonant and personally conflicted thing for you. Sorry about that. Its not a comment on your choices, just a statement of my own. I couldnt care less what you do or why-- I’ve seen your comment history over time. We never agree on much. Truly-- Good luck to you, centrist.
Life isnt easy, and I dont begrudge anyone not aligning to my worldview. Maybe what looks to be nonsensical to me is actually the right way-- I wouldnt be shocked to be wrong, compared to a centrist anyway. I’d be surprised if a right winger were right about much of anything.
I advocated for organizing community defense groups to harass and intimidate ICE agent, instead of individualist adventurism and you call me a centrist? Where you drunk when you wrote this?
