These are and should be just general discussion forums.
If you want to organize politically do it somewhere like a self-hosted Matrix chat, or any other appropriate End-to-End Encrypted service (Not WhatsApp. Telegram isn’t E2EE by default.)
The thing is, if you’re dealing with nation-state actors, just accept that you don’t and never did have privacy. Especially if you’ve somehow made yourself a target in their eyes.
In the meantime enjoy the fact that they currently probably don’t give a shit that you exist.
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to be fair, the level of surveillance now far surpasses anything the ruling class of old could have ever dreamed of doing
Hard to make a comparison. Is a spy at a meeting and reading physical mail really different from… spys at meetings and reading electronic communications?
The big difference probably isn’t that modern – it’s bugs that record in-person conversations even when no spy is in the room. A problem, but not an impossible one.
For sure, the game’s different, but the obstacles are still surmountable.
There was even an informant (Malinovsky) in the Central Committee at one point.
Talk in person. That’s it.
Never talk about anything incriminating online, and if you are ABSOLUTELY FORCED TO, use a peer to peer encryption network.
But how can you organize a massive revolution in person?
Compartmentalization. Local groups act as cells, and only certain and very limited people have contact with a higher person that “manages” those groups and is in charge of organizing/directing those groups, and those people then report to another tier of people/ so on until you narrow down to a central leadership.
Then you organize cells to work together.
You don’t need everyone to know each other. It’s a liability, is extremely dangerous, and is much much harder to organize. This is how spy agencies, militaries, insurgents, political parties, corporations, and so on have operated for centuries.
You don’t need everyone in the country to join up with you, people will join the bandwagon if it picks up steam. You just need to have a good step nucleus that can quickly incorporate those people. The Bolsheviks for example were not very big at the time of the revolution either for example.
I also never said that you could never use electronic communication. That’s what the compartmentalization is for, it makes it much safer if something leaks or gets compromised.
That’s literally how all the successful revolutions were organized.
Mfw Lenin and Stalin organized the Bolsheviks over Discord.
Pigeons, I think you can train mice too maybe? It isn’t difficult to use drones too. Im going to sublime a message but if you can’t see it and it doesn’t hit any triggers its invisible to the world.
I don’t have a coherent plan for you, but here are some thoughts:
- Don’t talk online.
- Not sure how much you can achieve if you’re so far away that you need the internet to communicate, tbh.
- The internet is a tool that has certain applications. Organising the revolution probably isn’t one of them. It’s good for education. It’s maybe good for emergency messaging (‘so and so got arrested; send the lawyer to precinct X’). It’s good for news and keeping up with other struggles. That’s probably it.
- I hear about the internet being used to organise protests. But I’ve yet to see a protest achieve much. Probably because they’re are infiltrated because they’re organised in public, but if you want loads of people to show up, you’ve got to forget about secrecy and just tell people.
- Same applies to organising a workplace. Some secrecy is necessary but beyond that it needs democracy, publicity, and transparency. There’s always a balance to strike.
- A revolution requires organisation. To start with, we/you need to organise with other workers in some way. This will invite bad actors/spies, which will undermine any technical security measures: no password or encryption will help you if you can’t spot the agent in the room.
- It depends on where you live (you mention the CIA and NSA so I assume the US but can’t be certain because they’re everywhere). You must analyse local conditions and local threats.
- If you’re in the States, you’re not going to be having anything like a Cuban or Chinese revolution. You simply will not be able to keep the organisation of an armed force secret for long enough to be prepared enough to take down the US militarily. You have to consider what a revolution might look like in your country, then work out what tools and steps you need to take to bring it about.
- We did a reading group on a book called Revolution in the Revolution by Debray, which you might find interesting (search this site for NEBulae). You can’t transplant whatever worked in one country to another country without modification.
- All reactionaries are paper tigers. They only have power because workers do as they’re told. They don’t have the strength to resist revolution on their own. But you won’t reveal their papery core unless you organise workers. Until then, their teeth and claws are sharp enough.
- The problem in the west is that the majority of people are labour aristocrats without any class consciousness. They will defend capitalism long before you have to worry about the NSA and CIA. Westerners need to figure out that problem before they need to worry about going head-to-head with the state in a ‘revolution’.
Your last point 100%.
Revolution in the West is hopeless unless Westerners can get tf over their chauvanism. As long as Westerners believe all the bullshit they are fed about other political and economic systems in the Global South then their rage will always be able to redirected away from their own ruling class.
I do think it’s possible but it’s gonna take a long while.
simple, don’t put incriminating shit online lol, this should be part of the application questions i swear
“should communists write anything potentially incriminating online”
and if they don’t answer “no” the admins need to send them a dm explaining why they need to be more careful
Carrier pigeons.
I am proud to introduce the establishment of the brand new CIA Falconeer Corps!
iirc, there was an al-qaeda cell that communicated through world of warcraft lmao
Another way was to share an email account and write draft messages but never send them. People would just log in and read the drafts, and respond with another draft. Obviously you’d want to use a private server for that
David Petraeus got busted sleeping with his biographer this way, so it’s far from perfect.
you use briar and an elaborate system of dead drops, Bluetooth, and sneakernet. possibly one time pads and encrypted transmission by radio once things pick up. of course radio transmissions can be triangulated, so…
in any case you can expect infiltration in your organization so cryptography has some limitations in what it can accomplish. in any case you shouldn’t post anything incriminating online, ever
make sure not to use the internet nor any technology unless you know it thoroughly; alternatively you could just wait for the in-progress declined to reach a level such that you can get away w it because there’s too much money, practice and infrastructure in place to make anything otherwise nonviable.
Talk about a movie script about a revolution
Use things with E2E encryption like signal and matrix?
Try to meet in person as much as possible and only use those E2E services once you have met the person.
Pretty sure Signal is an op
Use encrypted services like Signal and matrix for online communications. Practice good Opsec. Encrypt absolutely everything to do with organizing. Communicate in person.
Signal is a psy-op and an op, I read a write-up about it months ago.
Not that I am in anyway doubting you about this, because everytime i read up on it it gets sketchier, but can you provide a link
might be the good old https://github.com/dessalines/essays/blob/master/why_not_signal.md
Telegram is not a good online serviced to mantein the privacity for u?
It’s not a private option because it doesn’t offer end to end encryption on regular chats and because the server side code is all closed source.
At least three things are required for any mass political change to happen:
- A critical mass of people taking proactive, organized action.
- A chunk of people who may not be organized, but who will join a proactive, organize action.
- A chunk of people who may not take proactive steps, but who aren’t going to go to the mat for the old regime.
2 and 3 are probably the most important – they’re essentially the difference between an interest group and a mass movement – and probably the hardest for modern intelligence to stop. They try (look at social media astroturfing and legacy media influence), but your propaganda line can only deviate so much from reality before people reject it. Other comments address accomplishing 1 despite interference.
The intention is explicitly to prevent any complete reform.
Alternatively, we can make an army of bots that just post assassination plots and riot plans everywhere, and hide the real plots within it.
